Asteroids, Asteroids and More Asteroids - Side A - Astrology Hotline

Episode 4

Asteroids, Asteroids and More Asteroids - Side A

Published on: 18th August, 2021

Porter asked astrologers Tristan and Kyle, about their thoughts on the asteroids, and they may have gotten more then they bargained for. Side A of this episode covers a general overview of the asteroids in astrology, as well as a closer look at Ceres and Juno. Side B covers Pallas and Vesta.

Katharine Hepburn's Birth Chart: https://imgur.com/goZmVTT


Kyle Pierce -

Consultations: https://kylepierceastrology.com

Killer Cosmos: https://bit.ly/ListenToKillerCosmos


Tristan Paylor-

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badsignastrology

Consultations: https://badsignastrology.ca


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Transcript
Tristan Paylor:

Hello, and welcome to the astrology hotline

Tristan Paylor:

where we answer your questions about your birth chart or about

Tristan Paylor:

astrology in general. Today is Thursday, August 5, my name is

Tristan Paylor:

Tristan Paylor, and hosting with me today is Kyle Pierce. Hello.

Tristan Paylor:

We have a special episode for you today. Our question comes

Tristan Paylor:

from Porter, who wants to know what our thoughts are about the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids in astrology? And as it turns out, we have so many

Tristan Paylor:

thoughts that we decided just to devote an entire episode to this

Tristan Paylor:

particular question.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, before receiving this question, I had

Kyle Pierce:

really been quite dismissive of the asteroids. Initially, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, in my initial studies of astrology, we did like what a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of people do is just I read, you know, ooh, that's

Kyle Pierce:

descriptions of my, you know, my Juno sign or, or this or that.

Kyle Pierce:

And, you know, thought it was interesting. But then, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

once I got into more traditional forms of astrology, I really

Kyle Pierce:

just kind of stopped paying attention to them all together.

Kyle Pierce:

But this question definitely prompted some research that

Kyle Pierce:

surprisingly, changed my perspective on them had a deep

Kyle Pierce:

impact, if you will. That's a that's upon based on the movie

Kyle Pierce:

Deep Impact in which asteroid hits hits the earth it? But

Kyle Pierce:

yeah, how about you, Tristan, what is your experience with the

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids? Before?

Tristan Paylor:

The the Deep Impact reference is not lost on

Tristan Paylor:

me for what that's worth. Yeah, I'm in a similar boat. I was a

Tristan Paylor:

little interested in them when I first got into astrology. And

Tristan Paylor:

quickly, I don't know, I kind of thought they were noise. And

Tristan Paylor:

then, you know, in the last year or so, I've been really studying

Tristan Paylor:

traditional astrology very deeply, and, you know, really

Tristan Paylor:

focusing on the seven visible planets. And in a way, I'm, I am

Tristan Paylor:

glad that that was my trajectory. Because it's sort of

Tristan Paylor:

starting with the basics, and starting with the planets that

Tristan Paylor:

have been part of the tradition for 1000s of years, I think has

Tristan Paylor:

been helpful for me in terms of conceptualizing how the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids are useful and what they mean. And you know, what

Tristan Paylor:

they add, potentially to the tradition, I, I ended up I

Tristan Paylor:

wasn't expecting to have my world rocked by learning more

Tristan Paylor:

about the asteroids, but here I am.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Seems ease. Now I think it ends up being

Kyle Pierce:

really helpful. I'm glad to be learning more about this, the

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids now. Just, I feel like I'm able to really pull apart

Kyle Pierce:

maybe what an asteroid like in my chart, or someone else's

Kyle Pierce:

chart might be doing a little more, you know, knowing how to

Kyle Pierce:

differentiate between, say, series and the moon. Right. But

Kyle Pierce:

we'll, we'll get into that as we, we go along.

Tristan Paylor:

I feel like I should say, you know, as a full

Tristan Paylor:

disclaimer, for this episode, I am by no means an asteroid

Tristan Paylor:

expert, I, you know, did a deep dive into researching them in

Tristan Paylor:

the past week. And, you know, as, as many of us do, when we

Tristan Paylor:

start researching things in astrology, we immediately

Tristan Paylor:

reference them back to our own charts, or the charts of our

Tristan Paylor:

loved ones and people we know well. So, you know, I'm not

Tristan Paylor:

like, there are astrologers who have studied the asteroids for

Tristan Paylor:

decades, and have experienced looking at them in hundreds upon

Tristan Paylor:

hundreds of client charts. There are, you know, historians who

Tristan Paylor:

know a ton about the mythology behind you know, the names of

Tristan Paylor:

the asteroids, like the figures they represent. I am I am

Tristan Paylor:

neither of those people. So, I think, you know, a lot of what I

Tristan Paylor:

have to say, is going to be grounded in my personal

Tristan Paylor:

experience. And, you know, the story of my sort of introduction

Tristan Paylor:

to the asteroids in the past week, because I you know, I

Tristan Paylor:

can't really speak from a place of authority on anything other

Tristan Paylor:

than my personal experience.

Kyle Pierce:

I mean, ultimately, that that ends up being what

Kyle Pierce:

sells most people on anything astrology related, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

they see something in their own chart. that really, really

Kyle Pierce:

resonates. And it's true, you know, holy cow, I, you know, I

Kyle Pierce:

got to know more about this. And it's basically been the last

Kyle Pierce:

week of just really obsessively absorbing as much information as

Kyle Pierce:

I can about about asteroids. Yeah, it's been intense. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

maybe, you know, after we go over them a bit, talk about how,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, we might individually use them in the future. I think

Kyle Pierce:

they, you know, definitely deserve recognition. And, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, they, they do something, they do stuff, I would say, but

Kyle Pierce:

maybe treat them still differently than, you know, the

Kyle Pierce:

traditional planets.

Tristan Paylor:

That might be a good segue into just sort of

Tristan Paylor:

talking broadly about what the asteroids are, you know, what

Tristan Paylor:

differentiates them from the traditional planets and other

Tristan Paylor:

bodies in the solar system? And yeah, I think you had a good

Tristan Paylor:

sort of overview, Kyle, that you were describing to me.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Um, so to define asteroids. Asteroids from

Kyle Pierce:

an astrological standpoint include planetary bodies in the

Kyle Pierce:

solar system, some of which can astronomically be categorized as

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids, but also larger objects that different times

Kyle Pierce:

were categorized as planets, minor planets, and planetoids.

Kyle Pierce:

Usually, when people refer to asteroids and astrology, they're

Kyle Pierce:

referring to basically all the planetary bodies that are not

Kyle Pierce:

one of the seven traditional planets Sun, Moon, Mercury,

Kyle Pierce:

Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, or one of the three outer planets,

Kyle Pierce:

Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Objects like Chiron or series,

Kyle Pierce:

or Vesta palace, and Juno, for example. Era eras seems to also

Kyle Pierce:

get kind of lumped in with the asteroids. But it's technically

Kyle Pierce:

you know, kind of categorized as a minor planet similar to Pluto.

Kyle Pierce:

And kind of part of a group of trans Neptunian minor planets.

Kyle Pierce:

It's there's like a bunch of them that they're discovering

Kyle Pierce:

all the time. You also get different categories among the

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids in astrology, like Chiron, for example, is part of

Kyle Pierce:

the family of planetary bodies called sentarse, comprising a

Kyle Pierce:

group of asteroids, and planetoids that inhabit the

Kyle Pierce:

region of the solar system beyond the orbit of Saturn. Is

Kyle Pierce:

it between Saturn and Neptune? Am I

Tristan Paylor:

there wild? I mean, the they're very

Tristan Paylor:

appropriately named and categorized. The astronomers who

Tristan Paylor:

are working on these things, we're definitely thinking

Tristan Paylor:

symbolically when they named them. The center's are asteroids

Tristan Paylor:

that have unstable orbits that cross the orbits of one or more

Tristan Paylor:

of the larger planets, typically between Saturn and Pluto.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. You really did most of the research on on

Kyle Pierce:

the center's defer to you on that.

Tristan Paylor:

Wikipedia was

Kyle Pierce:

Wikipedia is everybody's around.

Tristan Paylor:

Donate to wake up eat. Yeah, actually good.

Kyle Pierce:

Um, Mercury remediation, by the way, for

Kyle Pierce:

anybody interested in donating to Wikipedia? Yeah, I do so

Kyle Pierce:

regularly.

Tristan Paylor:

The center's have characteristics of both

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids and comments. And the mythological centers are both

Tristan Paylor:

horse and human. Interesting. There's, yeah, there's a lot of

Tristan Paylor:

symbolic resonance there. Yeah, and there are it's estimated

Tristan Paylor:

that there are between 44,000 and more than 10 million centers

Tristan Paylor:

in our solar system. So there is a crowd there is a rowdy crowd

Tristan Paylor:

of celestial bodies hanging out around and past Saturn. Watch

Tristan Paylor:

out.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I there's so much information floating around

Kyle Pierce:

in my brain but um, you know, if I say something inaccurate

Kyle Pierce:

begging of Pardons, but I remember reading something about

Kyle Pierce:

there being you know, was it in counting like, over 100,000

Kyle Pierce:

minor planets in the solar system are things that you could

Kyle Pierce:

you could classify as minor planets. But, you know, the

Kyle Pierce:

center's kind of represent one main body, or one main category

Kyle Pierce:

of asteroids. And then there are those that inhabit the region of

Kyle Pierce:

space between Mars and Jupiter, otherwise known as the asteroid

Kyle Pierce:

belt. And these include asteroids like Ceres, Juno

Kyle Pierce:

Vesta, Palace Igea, just to name a few more prominent ones. But

Kyle Pierce:

there are 1000s of these bodies, and more are discovered being

Kyle Pierce:

discovered all the time.

Tristan Paylor:

And the just to give listeners an idea of sort

Tristan Paylor:

of the timeframe. The first few asteroids that were discovered

Tristan Paylor:

in the asteroid belts were discovered in the early 1800s.

Tristan Paylor:

Series was the first, she was discovered in January of 1801.

Tristan Paylor:

And then the center's you know, being farther away are a more

Tristan Paylor:

recent discovery, I think.

Kyle Pierce:

1970s. Right.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, the very first one was discovered in

Tristan Paylor:

1920. But the making, the Wikipedia article describes it

Tristan Paylor:

as they were not recognized as a distinct population until the

Tristan Paylor:

discovery of Chiron in 1977. So I'm going to infer from that

Tristan Paylor:

that that's about when the center's became sort of a

Tristan Paylor:

collective category of celestial objects. And then, you know, you

Tristan Paylor:

have like the, the ones that get used a lot in astrology. Were, I

Tristan Paylor:

think, discovered, from the 1970s on Chiron was in 77, and

Tristan Paylor:

Phyllis and necess, were in the early 90s and Chariklo, that

Tristan Paylor:

Chariklo is the wife of Chiron. And she's come up on my radar

Tristan Paylor:

more and more in the last couple of years, as a body that is used

Tristan Paylor:

by astrologers, and she was discovered in 1990 97. So

Tristan Paylor:

they're, they're a little more recent there. They just come up

Tristan Paylor:

on our radar, you know, in very recent history.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Well, that sounds like a good maybe segue

Kyle Pierce:

into just talking a little bit about kind of the history of how

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids and started getting incorporated into astrology.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, that sounds great.

Kyle Pierce:

Well, I know that Dimitra George was not

Kyle Pierce:

necessarily the first to use asteroids in astrology, but she

Kyle Pierce:

is really credited. I think, kind of primarily responsible

Kyle Pierce:

for introducing and kind of popularizing the use of

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids in modern astrology. She began work on them in the

Kyle Pierce:

late 1960s, or 1970s. Eventually publishing a very popular book

Kyle Pierce:

on them in the 1980s, called asteroid goddesses. And her

Kyle Pierce:

interpretation of the asteroids, emphasized the mythology of the

Kyle Pierce:

goddesses after which they were named, and presented them as

Kyle Pierce:

representing a sort of counterbalance to the

Kyle Pierce:

predominance of patriarchal archetypes in traditional

Kyle Pierce:

astrology, as their discovery, loosening to coincide with kind

Kyle Pierce:

of increasing awareness and prominence of women and women's

Kyle Pierce:

issues in public life and society. And one thing I find

Kyle Pierce:

very interesting about Dimitra George's chard is She's a Leo

Kyle Pierce:

rising, and she has Venus in Virgo ruling her 10th house, you

Kyle Pierce:

think that Virgo often has to do with an A focusing on smaller

Kyle Pierce:

things like, you know, asteroids as compared to planets, and

Kyle Pierce:

Venus being, you know, very inclusive, sort of harmonizing

Kyle Pierce:

planet in fact that, you know, her career kind of claim to fame

Kyle Pierce:

is really finding a place even advocating for incorporating

Kyle Pierce:

these otherwise minor bodies. And actually, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

initially she was met with like, a lot of, you know, a lot of

Kyle Pierce:

mainstream astrologers in the 70s just kind of scoffed at her

Kyle Pierce:

like, Oh, we don't need this, these these, you know, little

Kyle Pierce:

floating balls of, of ice and rock, you know, gunking up our,

Kyle Pierce:

our perfect astrology,

Tristan Paylor:

they refer to them as like gravel or something

Tristan Paylor:

like that. She does. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

yeah. She's like gravel, floating balls of

Kyle Pierce:

gravel. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

she's a guest on an episode of the astrology

Tristan Paylor:

podcast. And she talks about the asteroids and like her, how she

Tristan Paylor:

became interested in it and the reception she received from the

Tristan Paylor:

astrology community. And I couldn't help smiling when I was

Tristan Paylor:

listening to her talk about it, because, you know, she was kind

Tristan Paylor:

of talking about having to work from a grassroots level. Because

Tristan Paylor:

the people who, you know, had the positions of authority in

Tristan Paylor:

the astrology world, we're not interested in hearing about the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids, and we're very dismissive of them. But, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, people that she was doing client work with, were actually

Tristan Paylor:

really interested in them. And really resonating with their

Tristan Paylor:

stories, I think in part because, you know, there there

Tristan Paylor:

aren't a lot of goddesses among the planets that astrologers

Tristan Paylor:

were using at the time. So was sort of popularizing them from

Tristan Paylor:

that grassroots place. And I kind of like that, you know, as

Tristan Paylor:

someone who's got a little bit of an anti establishment streak.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. And I think that's a good um, you know, for

Kyle Pierce:

anybody out there that has, you know, maybe a planet that you

Kyle Pierce:

traditionally called, you know, in its fall or in its detriment,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, ruling in important house. It's a lot of ways that

Kyle Pierce:

that can work out. very favorably, I mean, she's one of

Kyle Pierce:

the big one of the best known astrologers and the astrology

Kyle Pierce:

community. Definitely is going to have a legacy that is gonna,

Kyle Pierce:

gonna endure, I would assume.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, definitely. But this, this is

Tristan Paylor:

now a pro Venus and Virgo podcast. Now like Venus in

Tristan Paylor:

Virgo. I do love the planets and fall or detriment in the 10th

Tristan Paylor:

house or in the first house and being, you know, kind of movers

Tristan Paylor:

and shakers who forced the establishment to kind of change

Tristan Paylor:

who criticize the establishment or just like, yeah, and even

Tristan Paylor:

like, from a Venusian level, it's not like she was

Tristan Paylor:

criticizing the establishment necessarily. But just like her

Tristan Paylor:

work, actually relating to people did end up shaking up the

Tristan Paylor:

establishment and kind of forcing them to wake up and

Tristan Paylor:

reassess their position on things.

Kyle Pierce:

Like, oh, yeah, this is what people want to hear

Kyle Pierce:

now. And it's what they want to see. There's what they're asking

Kyle Pierce:

about in their charts. We better read Dimitris book and learn

Kyle Pierce:

about this. And

Tristan Paylor:

that's like, I mean, this is something you

Tristan Paylor:

know, now that I'm walking down the path of being a professional

Tristan Paylor:

astrologer, there's often a difference between what you

Tristan Paylor:

know, professional astrologers in the astrology community are

Tristan Paylor:

really focused on and what clients who are seeking readings

Tristan Paylor:

from professional astrologers are focused on. And the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids are really popular among people who are consumers

Tristan Paylor:

of astrology readings. And I think, you know, it's important

Tristan Paylor:

to take that seriously. Like, there's a reason that people

Tristan Paylor:

want to see certain things, there's a resonance there, and I

Tristan Paylor:

don't think that we should ignore what resonates with

Tristan Paylor:

people kind of defeats the whole purpose of doing astrology.

Kyle Pierce:

I absolutely agree.

Tristan Paylor:

On that note, I think it is important to still

Tristan Paylor:

sort of distinguish what role it is that asteroids play and what

Tristan Paylor:

is it that differentiates them from the planets? I don't know

Tristan Paylor:

if you have some thoughts on that.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Well, um, this is related. I do want to

Kyle Pierce:

talk just a little bit about the concept of diamond. So Dimitra

Kyle Pierce:

frame the asteroids within the ancient Greek cosmology, that

Kyle Pierce:

astrology is based on as diamond. And diamond has a

Kyle Pierce:

meaning akin to spirit in English, but was also used to

Kyle Pierce:

kind of refer to the gods, but rather than maybe the personhood

Kyle Pierce:

or personality of a given God, which might be called Theo's

Kyle Pierce:

diamond was often used to describe the action or activity

Kyle Pierce:

of the gods. And you kind of get a sense of this, when you look

Kyle Pierce:

at the significations of the houses of the 12 houses with the

Kyle Pierce:

bottom hemisphere, you get the house of good fortune, you get

Kyle Pierce:

the house of bad fortune. And the bottom hemisphere houses are

Kyle Pierce:

more embodied, they deal with topics that are more embodied

Kyle Pierce:

having to do with physical or tangible experiences in general,

Kyle Pierce:

with the upper hemisphere, you know, houses, eight through 12,

Kyle Pierce:

dealing more with kind of activity, more abstract

Kyle Pierce:

conceptual houses, the house of good spirit, the house of a bad

Kyle Pierce:

spirit. And then die die man would also describe sort of semi

Kyle Pierce:

divine beings that would act sort of go betweens between the

Kyle Pierce:

gods and sort of plain of human experience. Like think of them

Kyle Pierce:

as sort of, like lieutenants, you know, like the planets, the

Kyle Pierce:

planetary gods give the orders and, you know, they might give

Kyle Pierce:

like a general decree, but it's kind of up to the lieutenant's

Kyle Pierce:

to decide on how its carried out. And I think you can really

Kyle Pierce:

see that play out for people in charts when you're kind of

Kyle Pierce:

looking at their their asteroid placements.

Tristan Paylor:

And I think, I think as I you know, my my

Tristan Paylor:

beginner crowd course on the asteroids this past week has

Tristan Paylor:

been reading asteroid goddesses by Dimitra. George and she talks

Tristan Paylor:

about, like a planetary matrix at points in the book where, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, like the moon sort of acts as a as a matrix or like an

Tristan Paylor:

umbrella concept and then an asteroid like series exists

Tristan Paylor:

under that umbrella as sort of a more specific expression of the

Tristan Paylor:

lunar archetype.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, definitely. That's very concise and succinct

Kyle Pierce:

way was trying to say, thank you for that.

Tristan Paylor:

You're welcome. Now, I think is it's useful

Tristan Paylor:

because you know, one of the, once you start adding objects

Tristan Paylor:

into astrology, you potentially run into redundancy, which, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, is something like I've one of the reasons I've been really

Tristan Paylor:

kind of focusing on learning astrology, and practicing

Tristan Paylor:

Astrology with just the seven traditional planets is that you

Tristan Paylor:

know, the meaning that's given to the outer planets. A lot of

Tristan Paylor:

those significations were significations that already

Tristan Paylor:

belonged in the tradition to the seven traditional planets like

Tristan Paylor:

Pluto takes a lot of its significations from Mars, for

Tristan Paylor:

example. So, when you're dealing with just like a large number of

Tristan Paylor:

bodies, there is that question of, you know, what do they stand

Tristan Paylor:

for, that isn't just repeating something that's already part of

Tristan Paylor:

the tradition are already covered by the seven traditional

Tristan Paylor:

planets, but I think there is a way in which the asteroids are

Tristan Paylor:

like, more specific manifestations of those broader

Tristan Paylor:

archetypes. And you know, they they stand for specific stories.

Tristan Paylor:

You know, like, Cirrus, has a very clear narrative that the

Tristan Paylor:

moon doesn't necessarily have, because the moon is such a broad

Tristan Paylor:

archetype. But then you look at the story of Demeter, who's the

Tristan Paylor:

Greek equivalent of Ceres, and where, you know, the asteroid

Tristan Paylor:

gets a lot of its meaning from, and that's like a very specific

Tristan Paylor:

story and roll that's sort of like in the lunar sphere. But

Tristan Paylor:

you can, like, identify that narrative. A little more exactly

Tristan Paylor:

in a chart when you look at that asteroid. Hopefully, I'm making

Tristan Paylor:

sense.

Kyle Pierce:

No, absolutely. Yeah, I think that was really

Kyle Pierce:

one of the things that confused me about the asteroids, kind of

Kyle Pierce:

looking at them early on, is like, Oh, well, Juno, it's the

Kyle Pierce:

Juno was the goddess of of marriage. Right? Well, isn't

Kyle Pierce:

that Venus? You know, what is that? What makes that different

Kyle Pierce:

from Venus? And I think what has maybe helped me understand what

Kyle Pierce:

they're doing is, is, like you said, they're, like extensions

Kyle Pierce:

of, or more specific permutations of, of that theme.

Kyle Pierce:

You know, I don't think that Juno was like stealing

Kyle Pierce:

significations from Venus. And say that, you know, Juno is like

Kyle Pierce:

another place to look for themes around marriage, but it also

Kyle Pierce:

has, you know, more very specific themes around not just

Kyle Pierce:

marriage but

Tristan Paylor:

like a specific experience of marriage and a

Tristan Paylor:

specific experience and relationship you know, there's a

Tristan Paylor:

certain partner Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

Have you know, that are primarily primarily derived

Kyle Pierce:

from the, the archetype the goddess in question the

Kyle Pierce:

mythology around it, which is another maybe important

Kyle Pierce:

distinguish, distinguishing point about the asteroids is

Kyle Pierce:

that the traditional planets while a lot of the

Kyle Pierce:

significations line up with mythology of God that it was

Kyle Pierce:

named after. We don't really rely as much on on mythology to

Kyle Pierce:

kind of pull the significations for the traditional planets.

Kyle Pierce:

They're much broader archetypes.

Tristan Paylor:

And I'm just thinking, you know, the, the

Tristan Paylor:

planets play these really sort of clear roles where, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

like, Saturn and Mars negate things Jupiter and Venus affirm

Tristan Paylor:

things and regardless of their mythology, you know, they play a

Tristan Paylor:

certain they have to do a certain job within the system.

Tristan Paylor:

And, you know, the asteroids are not sort of tasked with the

Tristan Paylor:

responsibilities that the traditional planets are. They

Tristan Paylor:

just kind of stand alone as stories. And, you know, I think

Tristan Paylor:

like when you're looking at the traditional planets in a chart,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, you're sort of looking at like Say, a planet is ruling

Tristan Paylor:

a certain house. And that says something about how the topics

Tristan Paylor:

of that house might go in somebody's life. And a planet

Tristan Paylor:

like Jupiter or Saturn having an influence on that planet is

Tristan Paylor:

going to really significantly change how that planet like,

Tristan Paylor:

does its job like say, you know, a planet rules your seventh

Tristan Paylor:

house, it's in charge of your relationships, and it's being

Tristan Paylor:

opposed by Saturn. And so it has to kind of work against that

Tristan Paylor:

energy in order to give you relationships. Yeah, whereas the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids, you know, when you're working with them, it's more

Tristan Paylor:

about telling the story like this is the story of Ceres. Does

Tristan Paylor:

that story resonate with your own life story in a meaningful

Tristan Paylor:

way?

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, yeah, I would say, especially given that, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, at least as far as I can tell, and the way that the

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids are used, you know, they, they don't rule houses

Kyle Pierce:

like the planets do. So they're not creating scenes as much.

Kyle Pierce:

They're not defining, you know, the environment, setting the

Kyle Pierce:

stage, but they're kind of like actors, in the sense of

Kyle Pierce:

operating within, within a paradigm, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

yeah. Yeah, they don't have that. That

Tristan Paylor:

responsibility. You know, they're kinda like, they're not

Tristan Paylor:

in charge of anything. Yeah, but they're just like, involved.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, but I mean, the also, in some ways, they

Kyle Pierce:

show up almost more visibly. In a sense, because they, they, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, if you have, say, Saturn in your 10th house, in a night

Kyle Pierce:

chart, you know, you might have you may, you may meet a lot of

Kyle Pierce:

obstacles or run into really strict authority figures in, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, your, your work in public career life. Right. But, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, Saturn is conjunct, say, really, any one of these

Kyle Pierce:

asteroids, you know, they might, it might take on, you might run

Kyle Pierce:

into a lot of like, powerful female figures, you know, or,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, Saturn might be delivering it significations,

Kyle Pierce:

sort of through the themes of that asteroid. That makes sense.

Tristan Paylor:

I actually really like that. Yeah, I think

Tristan Paylor:

that totally makes sense. Where, you know, the, the Saturn that

Tristan Paylor:

you meet in your 10th house is a slightly different face of

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn, if there's an asteroid right there, where, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn sort of broadly represents maybe authority

Tristan Paylor:

figures. And if Saturn is conjunct an asteroid, like say,

Tristan Paylor:

Pallas, who you know, as a warrior goddess, those authority

Tristan Paylor:

figures might be, you know, strategists or powerful women or

Tristan Paylor:

whatever the case may be, there's still going to be

Tristan Paylor:

Saturnian. But it's Saturn expressing itself through a more

Tristan Paylor:

specific archetype.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, and you know, this, as far as I can tell, at

Kyle Pierce:

this point, you know, further research may reveal a different

Kyle Pierce:

story, but I don't know if like series can like bonsai a planet

Kyle Pierce:

or maltreat a planet? You know, I don't know if you can really

Kyle Pierce:

strictly call any of them benefics or malefics, or

Kyle Pierce:

anything like that. I don't know if they have those kinds of

Kyle Pierce:

powers. This as far as I can tell,

Tristan Paylor:

should we maybe introduce, you know, listeners

Tristan Paylor:

to the Goddesses in the center's at least, you know, the ones

Tristan Paylor:

that get used most often, since we've been talking a little bit

Tristan Paylor:

about them might be good to give them a formal introduction.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, absolutely. For most of my research

Kyle Pierce:

purposes, just because there are 1000s of asteroids, I focus a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of my research on the Big Four to me, Drew would call the

Kyle Pierce:

Big Four. And that would be series Palace, Pallas, Athena,

Kyle Pierce:

Vesta, and Juno

Tristan Paylor:

which they so I also maybe introduced the

Tristan Paylor:

Centaurus just briefly. Yeah. We're going to we've focused our

Tristan Paylor:

research on the four goddess asteroids. But I do want to

Tristan Paylor:

mention some of the Centaurus just briefly just to give you

Tristan Paylor:

because they they are used with some frequency Chiron in

Tristan Paylor:

particular. Chiron is automatically placed in a chart

Tristan Paylor:

if you cast a chart on astro.com. So most people who

Tristan Paylor:

get into astrology are familiar with Chiron so he probably

Tristan Paylor:

doesn't need much of an introduction, but he is the

Tristan Paylor:

wounded healer archetype. I won't give you know a whole

Tristan Paylor:

overview of his mythology But, you know, he's, he's unusual.

Tristan Paylor:

Among the centers in that the centers in Greek mythology are

Tristan Paylor:

generally a very rowdy bunch of creatures. They're sort of feral

Tristan Paylor:

and they don't really care about you know, morals or the laws of

Tristan Paylor:

society. They sort of represent the wilderness and Chiron is

Tristan Paylor:

actually he has some divine parentage. And he's, he's not

Tristan Paylor:

just sort of animalistic, like the other centers. He's actually

Tristan Paylor:

like a teacher and a healer. So he has kind of a significant

Tristan Paylor:

position among the centers. And then another sort of similar

Tristan Paylor:

Centaurus full list, who does come up in discussions of

Tristan Paylor:

centers and astrology sometimes full us was also considered to

Tristan Paylor:

be a little bit more civilized than the other centers, but he

Tristan Paylor:

was not immortal. And then Chariklo was the wife of Chiron.

Tristan Paylor:

In some accounts in Greek mythology, she is the daughter

Tristan Paylor:

of Apollo. Unfortunately, I couldn't really find much about

Tristan Paylor:

her that wasn't explicitly about her connections to men.

Tristan Paylor:

Basically, all of the information I could find on

Tristan Paylor:

Chariklo was about how she was related to Manuel. She's the

Tristan Paylor:

wave of Chiron. She's the nurse of a number of Greek heroes.

Tristan Paylor:

We're getting at Kelly's and, and her name, the one thing I

Tristan Paylor:

could find out about her that didn't have to do with her

Tristan Paylor:

relationships with men was the meaning of her name, which is

Tristan Paylor:

graceful spinner. And then we have a lot of centers that are

Tristan Paylor:

not such nice people. Chiron fullest and Chariklo are, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, generally nice people. Then there's Nessus, who tried

Tristan Paylor:

to have his way with the wife of Herrick Lee's and Heroclix

Tristan Paylor:

killed him and then his own the poisoned blood of necess

Tristan Paylor:

eventually killed Herrick, please. So, not a very pleasant

Tristan Paylor:

story. And ACCION is another Centaur that sometimes shows up

Tristan Paylor:

in astrology, who he's I don't know that he's strictly a

Tristan Paylor:

centaur mythologically speaking, astronomically speaking. That's

Tristan Paylor:

the category he's in. mythologically speaking. He's

Tristan Paylor:

actually the ancestor of all the centers and how he ended up as

Tristan Paylor:

the ancestor to all the centers is also not a very nice story.

Tristan Paylor:

So just he's not a nice guy a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of very not nice in Greek mythology.

Tristan Paylor:

There Yeah, yeah, there. They're not very

Tristan Paylor:

pleasant. ACCION story is not very pleasant. So you know, if

Tristan Paylor:

you look that app content warning for that one, there's a

Tristan Paylor:

lot of bloodshed and just generally immoral behavior going

Tristan Paylor:

on.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I find just on that note, it's almost kind

Kyle Pierce:

of nice is that there is usually like a family friendly,

Kyle Pierce:

friendly, more family friendly version of a Greek story. And

Kyle Pierce:

then there's like the really awful dark version that you

Kyle Pierce:

know, maybe depending on your tastes, you can sort of choose

Kyle Pierce:

your your own adventure on that to some degree.

Tristan Paylor:

Definitely. So then, I guess you know, that

Tristan Paylor:

brings us to the goddesses who you really want to dive into?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. All right. We're starting with series, right?

Kyle Pierce:

Yes, series was the first first asteroid discovered

Kyle Pierce:

and actually was discovered in 1801, by Giuseppe Piazzi. If I'm

Kyle Pierce:

not pronouncing that correctly, DISAPPEA. It was considered a

Kyle Pierce:

planet. They classified it as a planet until about 1850 1850s or

Kyle Pierce:

so when it was classified as an asteroid. And then I believe in

Kyle Pierce:

2006, the same time that Pluto was being demoted to a minor

Kyle Pierce:

planet series got promoted to to a minor planet. Series is what

Kyle Pierce:

is called a proto planet is basically a thief is like a

Kyle Pierce:

planetary sort of Lego block. That never really got quite

Kyle Pierce:

incorporated into a Lego set. Series is the only minor planet

Kyle Pierce:

in the inner solar system. That's, you know, within the

Kyle Pierce:

orbit of the asteroid belt. It's the largest object in the

Kyle Pierce:

asteroid belt makes up about 25% of its mass, its orbit is 100.

Kyle Pierce:

And since 1682 Earth days or about 4.6 Earth years, NASA

Kyle Pierce:

actually consider series, one of the solar systems primary

Kyle Pierce:

candidates for the existence of potential life due to the

Kyle Pierce:

abundance of water. In fact, they estimate that about 50% of

Kyle Pierce:

the mass of Ceres could be water. That is very flattering.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, as well. Want to get all this science business?

Kyle Pierce:

Established because it really does actually seem with a lot of

Kyle Pierce:

the other asteroids is that some of their astronomy and kind of

Kyle Pierce:

physical characteristics really show up in the mythology and

Kyle Pierce:

kind of how they they seem to play out in charts. But also one

Kyle Pierce:

of the, you know, physical, physical qualities of series, or

Kyle Pierce:

perhaps the astronomical qualities of series, is it under

Kyle Pierce:

very rare conditions? When series is at peak magnitude, if

Kyle Pierce:

the sky on Earth happens to be dark enough, it is possible to

Kyle Pierce:

see series with the naked eye if you have just perfect 2020

Kyle Pierce:

vision, but you can generally see series with just simple

Kyle Pierce:

binoculars. And I think that's true for not sure about Juno,

Kyle Pierce:

but

Tristan Paylor:

it's definitely true for Vesta, because Vesta is

Tristan Paylor:

very reflected, as does

Kyle Pierce:

the brightest. Yeah. And I think that that

Kyle Pierce:

visibility is something in my mind that maybe upgrades them

Kyle Pierce:

maybe holds them gives them a little more significance than

Kyle Pierce:

some of the other asteroids, or at least, you know, with my sort

Kyle Pierce:

of cynical, bent, like, oh, well, maybe I'll take you

Kyle Pierce:

seriously. Because, you know, I can see you or something.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, what is what is biggest and most

Tristan Paylor:

obvious, and, you know, what do we give the most attention to?

Tristan Paylor:

And I think, I mean, this is not strictly related to series. But

Tristan Paylor:

one thing that does really distinguish the asteroids from

Tristan Paylor:

the seven traditional planets is visibility, and just the amount

Tristan Paylor:

of time we've been observing them. And I think there's

Tristan Paylor:

something symbolic there, too, like there's, you know, by the

Tristan Paylor:

time we started discovering these asteroids, it's because

Tristan Paylor:

technology had advanced enough to enable us to discover, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, everything else going on in our solar neighborhood, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, astrologers, in ancient Greece, or in medieval Europe,

Tristan Paylor:

or, you know, wherever people were doing astrology, they

Tristan Paylor:

didn't have access to a computer that would just like, plug in,

Tristan Paylor:

where, you know, all of the the dwarf planets and asteroids were

Tristan Paylor:

in a given chart, you know, they were calculating all this stuff

Tristan Paylor:

by hand based on what they could actually like, observe. So this

Tristan Paylor:

is kind of a new era for astrology in a way that, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, the asteroids maybe symbolizes, you know, we, what

Tristan Paylor:

we can see that whole issue of visibility, what is visible to

Tristan Paylor:

us has expanded significantly. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

yeah. But what do you think? Should I go to the

Kyle Pierce:

mythology first or go over significations? First,

Tristan Paylor:

let's let's dive into the mythology of series.

Kyle Pierce:

Okay, so give a brief overview of the mythology

Kyle Pierce:

of series. She was the goddess of fertility and agriculture,

Kyle Pierce:

seen as the patron of farmers and common folk, somewhat unique

Kyle Pierce:

among the Pantheon, for being just really actively involved in

Kyle Pierce:

human affairs, as opposed to most of the gods who would kind

Kyle Pierce:

of pick pet humans to take interest in or, you know, humans

Kyle Pierce:

they wanted to have sex with, or kind of intervene when it served

Kyle Pierce:

their agenda. When they wanted to prove something to another

Kyle Pierce:

god or whatever. There's a lot of games you know, the gods like

Kyle Pierce:

to play, but Ceres is kind of the one that just did what her

Kyle Pierce:

job was just a sort of, she was really in charge of agriculture,

Kyle Pierce:

at its essence, but in the Greek Roman era, people tended to

Kyle Pierce:

worship the God that was most associated with their social

Kyle Pierce:

status or profession. So serious may have been, perhaps the most

Kyle Pierce:

widely worship because she was the goddess of the common

Kyle Pierce:

farmer. plebeians, right? You also get the word serial from

Kyle Pierce:

Sirius, some from series. Series was the mother of Persephone,

Kyle Pierce:

maybe most notably in her story, who was kidnapped by Pluto. And

Kyle Pierce:

there's kind of an interesting astronomical relationship with

Kyle Pierce:

Jupiter. That sort of coincides because Pluto was sort of given

Kyle Pierce:

the okay from Jupiter to kidnap series his sister's daughter to

Kyle Pierce:

take his wife and astronomically. Scientists

Kyle Pierce:

believe Jupiter's gravitational dominance of that region had

Kyle Pierce:

something to do with why series never formed into a planet. So

Kyle Pierce:

in the story, Persephone A series goes looking for

Kyle Pierce:

Persephone, is it series? She goes she goes looking for

Kyle Pierce:

Persephone, right. Does she go down into the underworld? Or how

Kyle Pierce:

does that that come from that take place?

Tristan Paylor:

series, I don't believe goes down into the

Tristan Paylor:

underworld. She when she finds out what happened she

Tristan Paylor:

essentially goes on strike. Yeah, that's when nothing on

Tristan Paylor:

earth will grow. Yeah, because Ceres is the green goddess and

Tristan Paylor:

you know, the goddess of nurturing and agriculture and

Tristan Paylor:

food when she's grieving for her abducted daughter and nothing on

Tristan Paylor:

earth will grow and everyone is hungry.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, basically just winter, right.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. And so kind of to appease series, because

Kyle Pierce:

you know, and otherwise, she's been otherwise like benevolent

Kyle Pierce:

God. But, you know, if you take your daughter away, she'll,

Kyle Pierce:

she'll mess you up. Right? So the God's orchestrated a deal

Kyle Pierce:

with Pluto, you know, like a Pluto. You need to give her

Kyle Pierce:

Persephone back. But Pluto, was it the he fed, or that he gave

Kyle Pierce:

he tricked Persephone into eating?

Tristan Paylor:

A pomegranate,

Kyle Pierce:

eating a pomegranate. And it's right in

Kyle Pierce:

the underworld. And the rule was that if you ate something in

Kyle Pierce:

Hades, then you couldn't leave. But they, you know, we're sort

Kyle Pierce:

of going to get to work around. Basically you get a sort of a

Kyle Pierce:

split custody agreement between Ceres and Pluto. In which

Kyle Pierce:

Persephone spends I don't think it's 5050 I think it was.

Tristan Paylor:

I think it I think it is, I think it's half

Tristan Paylor:

the year after year after year. Persephone is in the underworld

Tristan Paylor:

and half the year. Persephone is in the world of mortals. And I

Tristan Paylor:

guess, maybe you know, the world of mortals. Persephone is not in

Tristan Paylor:

the underworld and can be with her mother's series, and the

Tristan Paylor:

series is happy and things grow on earth during the year, which

Tristan Paylor:

is sort of a mythological, like the origin of the story of the

Tristan Paylor:

seasons. Yeah. Yeah, there's this year, where we can't grow

Tristan Paylor:

anything and everything has cooled, because the goddess of

Tristan Paylor:

agriculture is grieving. Because she wants to be with her

Tristan Paylor:

daughter.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. So that kind of being the broad mythology,

Kyle Pierce:

you can see where a lot of the significations of series come

Kyle Pierce:

from. So you know, significations four series

Kyle Pierce:

involve motherhood nurturing, they called series, The Great

Kyle Pierce:

Mother, she's referred to often as the Great Mother, mother of

Kyle Pierce:

the people. So you get themes of just motherhood, but also not

Kyle Pierce:

just motherhood in the sort of traditionally mothering

Kyle Pierce:

component of parenthood, but kind of playing the mother role

Kyle Pierce:

to larger groups. And series is often associated with creating

Kyle Pierce:

or seeking out more inclusive supportive communities. But you

Kyle Pierce:

do get sort of darker themes with series to do with

Kyle Pierce:

attachment in both positive and negative themes around

Kyle Pierce:

attachment styles, and also grief and loss of children. But

Kyle Pierce:

sort of the natural grief that I think all parents go through

Kyle Pierce:

speaking as a parent, of just watching your your children grow

Kyle Pierce:

up, and, you know, your role as their parent diminishes over

Kyle Pierce:

time, and having to sort of let them go and be their own people,

Kyle Pierce:

hopefully not marry, you know, the god of the underworld. But

Kyle Pierce:

that seems to be a general theme that comes up. Something you

Kyle Pierce:

have found with series as well.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm not a parent, and I'm

Tristan Paylor:

really glad you brought that up, and that you have those

Tristan Paylor:

perspective. Because, you know, that's not, it's not part of my

Tristan Paylor:

personal experience. But that does make a lot of sense to me,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, there's, at some stage, a child is probably going

Tristan Paylor:

to move out, they're going to develop independence, and how,

Tristan Paylor:

as a parent, you handle that, I think, is a topic that is

Tristan Paylor:

relevant to series.

Kyle Pierce:

One was a lot of the thinking around series for

Kyle Pierce:

me over the past week or so. It's been around, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

like, not everybody's apparent. You know, how can those themes

Kyle Pierce:

play out or maybe show up for people in a much broader

Kyle Pierce:

context? And I mean, you think about, you know, what that

Kyle Pierce:

consciousness in mind of a parent and their child, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, you know, that they're eventually going to grow up and

Kyle Pierce:

leave you and all that. So you want to prepare them for the

Kyle Pierce:

outside world. You want to nurture them and make them their

Kyle Pierce:

own solid people find it interesting that series is the

Kyle Pierce:

daughter of Saturn. So you get Saturn in Opus opes. Like some

Kyle Pierce:

ancient guide about related to some ancient Earth God, I don't

Kyle Pierce:

know, I'm not as well versed in the entire Pantheon is think you

Kyle Pierce:

are interesting, but if you know anything about that

Tristan Paylor:

I'm not. I'm not sure who exactly are referring

Tristan Paylor:

to. Oh, oops.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Oh, Kiki, yes. Yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's

Unknown:

just the mother or that.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, that's, that tells you something right

Tristan Paylor:

there, right. Like, how often we either haven't heard of the

Tristan Paylor:

mother of a deity. Or, you know, what we do know of female

Tristan Paylor:

deities, like, you know, when I was talking about Chariklo, it's

Tristan Paylor:

like, the information I could find was just, she's defined by

Tristan Paylor:

how she relates to men. Yeah, you know, there's no sort of

Tristan Paylor:

like heroic story I could find about Chariklo. I think that

Tristan Paylor:

does tell you something.

Kyle Pierce:

If you think about that poem, like children of

Kyle Pierce:

Saturn or idea of children of Saturn, like there is some a

Kyle Pierce:

whirlwind challenge built in to series story. There's a very

Kyle Pierce:

Saturnian consciousness sort of involved in series that, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, yeah, yeah, there's the sort of inevitable end to a

Kyle Pierce:

certain phase or cycle.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, the theme of cycles of time. And within

Tristan Paylor:

any cycle, there is a period of decline. And maybe even the

Tristan Paylor:

symbols for Saturn, I mean, all of all of the asteroid goddesses

Tristan Paylor:

we're discussing are connected to Saturn in some way. Series

Tristan Paylor:

and Palace is the only one who isn't a child of Saturn of the

Tristan Paylor:

four Palace is a child of Jupiter of Zeus. But all of the

Tristan Paylor:

other three are actually children of Saturn and siblings

Tristan Paylor:

of Zeus or Jupiter. Yeah. But Ceres is the one who actually

Tristan Paylor:

has a glyph that looks very much like Saturn's glyph. Yeah, the

Tristan Paylor:

glyph that's used for Yeah. Yeah, the glyph that's used for

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn in in astrology looks like a sickle. And the glyph for

Tristan Paylor:

series is like almost the same glyph but just flipped. So that

Tristan Paylor:

the sickle, the blade of the sickle is facing up instead of

Tristan Paylor:

down.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. And so I mean, I think that is, that's a

Kyle Pierce:

good like, sort of hint at the way. The other asteroids work is

Kyle Pierce:

that you know, kind of on its face, it sounds like, Oh, sounds

Kyle Pierce:

a lot like the moon. Typically, the moon is where you look for

Kyle Pierce:

topics and themes related to parenting, how, you know, when

Kyle Pierce:

it's nurtured, even one of the big super significations of

Kyle Pierce:

series food, you find that the condition of the moon in a chart

Kyle Pierce:

often does say a lot about food. But you can also see, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

themes of Saturn involved in series and, you know, even other

Kyle Pierce:

architects perhaps. And that is the thing to when you really

Kyle Pierce:

like dig into astrology is you see the overlap in kind of all

Kyle Pierce:

of them that there is overlap. The way that the planets all

Kyle Pierce:

work together, create the sort of overlapping themes or themes

Kyle Pierce:

that connect to each other, you know, like the moon and Saturn

Kyle Pierce:

cancer opposes Capricorn. So there's kind of an inherent

Kyle Pierce:

inbuilt relationship between the moon and Saturn. That yeah, we

Kyle Pierce:

don't always like to see the moon, with Saturn, but the, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, death and rebirth, the end of life, the beginning of life,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, shifting of seasons, but series kind of holds that

Kyle Pierce:

archetype or holds a representative representation of

Kyle Pierce:

that sort of synthesis, you will,

Tristan Paylor:

I think, something that I'm increasingly

Tristan Paylor:

recognizing, and my own study and practice of astrology is

Tristan Paylor:

that there's a ton of overlap, even between the seven

Tristan Paylor:

traditional planets, and they don't fit as neatly into boxes

Tristan Paylor:

as we would like them to what sort of gives them clear roles

Tristan Paylor:

in traditional astrology is that they're given responsibilities,

Tristan Paylor:

and what you're responsible for isn't necessarily an indication

Tristan Paylor:

of your total character. So like Mercury and Jupiter are sort of

Tristan Paylor:

opposite archetypes just as an example. But there's also a lot

Tristan Paylor:

of overlap between those archetypes but what it comes

Tristan Paylor:

down to is not sort of like who they are as people or who they

Tristan Paylor:

are as characters. But what job they're sort of give And to do

Tristan Paylor:

within the scheme sets them in that polarity. But if you were

Tristan Paylor:

taking them just as characters in a drama, there is actually a

Tristan Paylor:

ton of overlap between all of these figures. And so it makes

Tristan Paylor:

sense that the asteroids are inevitably going to overlap

Tristan Paylor:

quite a bit in terms of their symbolism, with the planets.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. I mean, that's how and that's okay shows

Kyle Pierce:

up in people's lives, too. You know, you know, there's no peer,

Kyle Pierce:

Saturn's out there, there's no pure. Venus is out there. Like

Kyle Pierce:

they're, they're all interacting, you know, people

Kyle Pierce:

aren't archetypes.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, yeah. And I think even even the planets

Tristan Paylor:

themselves, you know, like, Saturn was sitting here with us,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, he might just want to have a good time, like, maybe he

Tristan Paylor:

wouldn't feel like being all serious and slow. Maybe he'd

Tristan Paylor:

feel like, I don't know, going out and playing bumper cars or

Tristan Paylor:

something. But he has a job. And when he's doing his job, he's

Tristan Paylor:

not doing bumper cars.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, well, that's one of the other kind of

Kyle Pierce:

significations of series is the sort of duty behind taking care

Kyle Pierce:

of, of not just a child, but a community or, you know, your

Kyle Pierce:

friends, or, you know, whatever maybe area of Life series might

Kyle Pierce:

be pointing to.

Tristan Paylor:

It's making me think to, as you were

Tristan Paylor:

mentioning, you know, the, the symbolism of series as parent

Tristan Paylor:

and her connection to experiences of parenthood. But

Tristan Paylor:

you know, as you were learning about series, you were thinking

Tristan Paylor:

about the fact that not everybody is a parent, but

Tristan Paylor:

everybody is a child, everybody has an experience of caregiving

Tristan Paylor:

when they are children. And I think that experience might also

Tristan Paylor:

be relevant to the placement of series in your chart, I think in

Tristan Paylor:

in Dimitris book, she talks a lot about the connection between

Tristan Paylor:

food and parenting and like your parents, how your parents, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, some of us have experiences where parents sort

Tristan Paylor:

of used food or deny food as sort of reward or punishment,

Tristan Paylor:

or, you know, we learn certain things like, you're only going

Tristan Paylor:

to get dessert if you finish your whole meal. And we sort of

Tristan Paylor:

learned from our parents to ignore what our bodies are

Tristan Paylor:

telling us in favor of social norms around food. So that I

Tristan Paylor:

mean, that's also a lunar signification like food and

Tristan Paylor:

caregiving, for sure, but it's interesting, like, how Ceres

Tristan Paylor:

kind of highlights that specific dynamic of how food overlaps

Tristan Paylor:

with parenting and how our experience of being fed and our

Tristan Paylor:

parents attitude around food affects not only how we eat as

Tristan Paylor:

adults, but a lot of other things about our behavior

Tristan Paylor:

potentially, or how we feel about the world or about

Tristan Paylor:

ourselves.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, that's what you'll ran into a lot of

Kyle Pierce:

strategies, talking about eating disorders, you know, with a

Kyle Pierce:

corresponding with a certain series placements. But I just

Kyle Pierce:

think I'm making me think about the, you know, in modern

Kyle Pierce:

society, we can have the luxury of not having to be overly

Kyle Pierce:

concerned with food. Sort of, you know, that hierarchy of

Kyle Pierce:

needs, a layer of the hierarchy of needs is just sort of taken

Kyle Pierce:

for granted. You know, we sort of have it under control, but

Kyle Pierce:

there's so much symbolically throughout history, even today

Kyle Pierce:

that goes with food, you know, having if you're going out on a

Kyle Pierce:

date, you know, you often go out to dinner. Business meetings are

Kyle Pierce:

often dinner meetings, you know, somebody's visiting your house,

Kyle Pierce:

it's, there's sort of an implicit expectation to provide

Kyle Pierce:

them with food, maybe not as much nowadays, but tradition

Kyle Pierce:

traditionally. There's been a lot of a lot around that, but I

Kyle Pierce:

don't find my go to is not to look for food, specifically,

Kyle Pierce:

when I look at series, but you know, a funny example actually

Kyle Pierce:

do have have a series placement that maybe relates to an episode

Kyle Pierce:

I did on my other podcast. Killer cosmos is that it's may

Kyle Pierce:

not belong on this podcast, but it's, you know, John Wayne Gacy

Kyle Pierce:

was known for. He murdered a lot of young men. A lot of parents

Kyle Pierce:

lost children to John Wayne Gacy. He also when he was in

Kyle Pierce:

prison, the first time he was in prison for a brief stint before

Kyle Pierce:

his kind of infamous murder spree, and he discovered a

Kyle Pierce:

talent as a chef. He was like the prison's cook and everybody

Kyle Pierce:

was like, Oh my God, you're amazing. Gacy and that was

Kyle Pierce:

actually what he did for a living for a while after that.

Kyle Pierce:

After getting out of prison, and he has series conjunct Mercury

Kyle Pierce:

in pisces, like exactly conjunct Mercury in pisces, which, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, if you listen to that episode, you can get a more

Kyle Pierce:

comprehensive analysis of what's going on with mercury. But you

Kyle Pierce:

know, you get both the food element of series with this

Kyle Pierce:

placement but also the unfortunately the the kidnapping

Kyle Pierce:

of of children which you know, don't freak out about your your

Kyle Pierce:

series placement people.

Tristan Paylor:

And I mean, that's that's the trouble right

Tristan Paylor:

is often the most extreme examples serve as the clearest

Tristan Paylor:

illustrations. But for the average person, that's not how

Tristan Paylor:

series is going to look. Yeah, to offer a somewhat lighter

Tristan Paylor:

example of series in a natal chart, my dog has serious

Tristan Paylor:

conjunct his moon, also in Pisces. And I remember, my

Tristan Paylor:

partner and I, learning about the different the, you know, the

Tristan Paylor:

whole theory of love languages. And we decided just for fun to

Tristan Paylor:

do. There's a website where you can like do a test to figure out

Tristan Paylor:

what is your love language, and we were like, Let's do one for

Tristan Paylor:

Kitsuke kits, who is the dog? So we did the love language test as

Tristan Paylor:

if we were kids you responding to the questions and discover

Tristan Paylor:

that his love language is definitely receiving gifts. But

Tristan Paylor:

of course, if you're a dog, all of your gifts are food. And we

Tristan Paylor:

know like, animals. Animals love us because we feed them. Yeah, I

Tristan Paylor:

guess two toys would be one, but he's really about the food. And

Tristan Paylor:

you know, it's not it's not unusual for animals to be all

Tristan Paylor:

about food. But he is one of those dogs that's particularly

Tristan Paylor:

food motivated, like, yeah, if if he thinks there's even a

Tristan Paylor:

slight chance that there might be food, he does not want you to

Tristan Paylor:

touch him. He does not want you to talk to him. He's like, what,

Tristan Paylor:

show me the money. Like, I know there's peanut butter somewhere.

Tristan Paylor:

Give me the peanut butter. Don't talk to me until it's in front

Tristan Paylor:

of me. Yeah. So it's very, it's interesting, actually, because I

Tristan Paylor:

had to. Sometimes there are funny ways that we project on to

Tristan Paylor:

our pets. And there have been times where I've been like, you

Tristan Paylor:

don't really love me, you're just using me for food. You

Tristan Paylor:

know, because the way I experience love and nurturing is

Tristan Paylor:

more through touch or being spoken to. And the way he

Tristan Paylor:

experiences nurturing is through being fed, which is not as big

Tristan Paylor:

of a thing for me. So I had to kind of, you know, take a step

Tristan Paylor:

back and realize, like, his way of receiving love is through his

Tristan Paylor:

stomach. And that's a totally valid way of feeling like loved

Tristan Paylor:

and appreciated and safe and nurtured. And it's different

Tristan Paylor:

from how I experience, love and feeling safe and nurtured. But

Tristan Paylor:

that, you know, doesn't make his way any less valid or important.

Tristan Paylor:

doesn't mean he's just using me for food. It's like there's a

Tristan Paylor:

connection. I think with serious conjunct the moon and the moon

Tristan Paylor:

being about how we feel safe. I think it's not just about him,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, needing his appetite to be satisfied. It's that if

Tristan Paylor:

people are feeding him, he knows that he's safe. He knows that we

Tristan Paylor:

love him. That's an assurance that we love him. It's not just

Tristan Paylor:

like a hedonistic thing. I think it's a very, very lunar drive in

Tristan Paylor:

his case.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Well, it's, it's like a baby, right? It's

Kyle Pierce:

funny, because it's funny, you even said the bit about like,

Kyle Pierce:

would you even love me if, if I wasn't giving you food right

Kyle Pierce:

now, you know, I remember having sort of thought, from time to

Kyle Pierce:

time. More jokingly or ironically, with the, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

my son when he was a baby, that so much of the bonding really

Kyle Pierce:

though that goes on between you. And a baby is the the feeding

Kyle Pierce:

process, you know, my happiest memories are, you know, waking

Kyle Pierce:

up in the middle of the night to feed my son, you know, and

Kyle Pierce:

sitting in a rocking chair. And those are like the moments that

Kyle Pierce:

I want to I just want to think about them. I feel so much more

Kyle Pierce:

connected to him. Something I have to do sometimes when you

Kyle Pierce:

know, when you inevitably lose that connection from time to

Kyle Pierce:

time, you know, which is just inevitable as a parent.

Tristan Paylor:

And there's like, a broader sense to you in

Tristan Paylor:

which you know, it's easy to feel like we live in an

Tristan Paylor:

impersonal universe that does not care about us. I mean, it

Tristan Paylor:

may very well be objectively true. But when we are being fed

Tristan Paylor:

and nourished by the world, it makes us feel like we live in a

Tristan Paylor:

universe that actually cares about us. Think in that broader

Tristan Paylor:

sense, like series, as you know, the goddess of agriculture and

Tristan Paylor:

the food that we get from the earth, there's a sense where,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, when the earth is providing food for us, we feel

Tristan Paylor:

like the world is safe. We feel like the world cares about us.

Tristan Paylor:

So thank you to Kitsune for teaching that lesson. Because I

Tristan Paylor:

think maybe it maybe it's part of what you were saying earlier,

Tristan Paylor:

too, that, you know, both of us living in, in North America,

Tristan Paylor:

when you know, being privileged in the ways that we are

Tristan Paylor:

privileged food is something we can easily take for granted. And

Tristan Paylor:

so I don't make the can I make the connection more between food

Tristan Paylor:

and money than I do between food and love? And so that was like,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, when I saw myself reacting to my sweet, innocent

Tristan Paylor:

dog being like, Do you really love me? I had to be like, okay,

Tristan Paylor:

come on. Like, he doesn't have any concept of of money or like

Tristan Paylor:

material things. This is very much connected to to love and

Tristan Paylor:

bonding for him. And maybe there's a bit of a disconnect

Tristan Paylor:

between food and bonding for me, because, you know, I for one,

Tristan Paylor:

take it for granted when for another associate it with just

Tristan Paylor:

like, it's another bill. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I almost find, ironically, that like,

Kyle Pierce:

like food for me is ends up being something that I end up

Kyle Pierce:

being really cheap. Sometimes, not all the time, but that I you

Kyle Pierce:

know, I can be a little frivolous. With my spending in

Kyle Pierce:

other ways. Maybe food is not the first place I look to feel

Kyle Pierce:

nourished. Which maybe, you know, resonates a little bit

Kyle Pierce:

with my personal placement with with series, the one that

Kyle Pierce:

Tristan and I actually happen to share is a series in Pisces

Kyle Pierce:

sleep pretty close to the midheaven. And when I think

Kyle Pierce:

about that, I you know, think about like, what makes me feel

Kyle Pierce:

nourished, or something what? Like, what do I feed off of, in

Kyle Pierce:

a sense, like, it's like I meaning you know, when things

Kyle Pierce:

when something gives, I can find meaning in something or find on

Kyle Pierce:

the overuse the word spiritual. It's like, someone was like the

Kyle Pierce:

Pisces go to word, but find something that resonates in my

Kyle Pierce:

soul, if you will like that. It's like, oh, I want that. I

Kyle Pierce:

want more of that. Give me all of that.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, the Well, it's, it's interesting. So I

Tristan Paylor:

have a series in Pisces on my midheaven like Kyle does. And I

Tristan Paylor:

actually did work in food service for most of my adult

Tristan Paylor:

life. I worked in food service from the age of 18, until I was

Tristan Paylor:

in my late 20s. So you know, I spent, I spent over a decade

Tristan Paylor:

working in food service. I didn't like it. So you know, and

Tristan Paylor:

I see series on my midheaven. I'm not like, Oh, I'm happy

Tristan Paylor:

about that. Particular. Yeah, like it's relevant. But I don't

Tristan Paylor:

want it to be relevant like that, because that wasn't a fun

Tristan Paylor:

time. Not saying that it can't be. You know, there are people

Tristan Paylor:

who work in that field. We're having a great time, but it was

Tristan Paylor:

not for me. But you know, that's, that's certainly a

Tristan Paylor:

signification. But I think it's interesting. It's in the ninth

Tristan Paylor:

house, both of us have the midheaven in the ninth house.

Tristan Paylor:

And we're both astrologers. And there is a way in which

Tristan Paylor:

astrology is a service of giving care and nurturing. But more in

Tristan Paylor:

a watery sense. Like it's more about spiritual and emotional

Tristan Paylor:

nurturing, as opposed to the physical tangible, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

cooking someone a meal, I think, you know, series in, in Pisces,

Tristan Paylor:

in the ninth house, might have more to do with, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

helping somebody figure out their existential crisis or, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, listening to them when they're having problems and just

Tristan Paylor:

being, you know, a supportive, you know, sort of shoulder for

Tristan Paylor:

them on an emotional level. Yeah. Helping someone, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

sort out, you know, a spiritual crisis that they might be having

Tristan Paylor:

that kind of thing. And I also I worked in the church for a long

Tristan Paylor:

time, too.

Kyle Pierce:

I mean, it wasn't for me, it did massage for a

Kyle Pierce:

long time. 10 years. Just another way of taking care of

Kyle Pierce:

people, right. Do you know when you think about it, seems kind

Kyle Pierce:

of obvious to me now. Maybe I wouldn't have thought of when

Kyle Pierce:

looking at series series before, you know, like, oh food, what,

Kyle Pierce:

but that sort of community orientation or wanting to, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, create a safe environment. What are Tristan and I doing

Kyle Pierce:

right now we're creating podcasts that I think, in part

Kyle Pierce:

is an expression or part of an effort to want to kind of create

Kyle Pierce:

a safe and supportive community around astrology, you know, find

Kyle Pierce:

other like minded people.

Tristan Paylor:

And we both have Jupiter in the 11th house in our

Tristan Paylor:

charts and series in Pisces is ruled by Jupiter. So she's in

Tristan Paylor:

the ninth house, but she's being ruled by a planet that's in the

Tristan Paylor:

11th house. And there's that connection between spirituality

Tristan Paylor:

and building community. And Sirius is about nurturing and

Tristan Paylor:

providing care and support. So I think it all fits together

Tristan Paylor:

nicely. I think something significant that really sold

Tristan Paylor:

Kyle and I on the significance of the asteroids, at least, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, series in particular, is that the way that Kyle and I met

Tristan Paylor:

is he made a post on an astrology subreddit, asking if

Tristan Paylor:

people wanted free readings, and within two minutes of him making

Tristan Paylor:

that post, I just happened to be scrolling Reddit at the time,

Tristan Paylor:

that within two minutes, I responded. And we have the chart

Tristan Paylor:

for when he posted this, which is how we, you know, started

Tristan Paylor:

corresponding in the first place. And at the time, he

Tristan Paylor:

posted it series was in Pisces. And Kyle was having a series

Tristan Paylor:

return. And series happened to be in the 11th house. So I had

Tristan Paylor:

had my series return, you know, sort of exactly a little bit

Tristan Paylor:

before that, but it was like, pretty much exactly on your

Tristan Paylor:

series. Kyle, when you posted that. And I think inevitably,

Tristan Paylor:

what happened is, we recorded a podcast episode entirely about

Tristan Paylor:

the asteroids. So clearly series was like, you know, I need to

Tristan Paylor:

get my name out there. So I'm gonna get these two astrologers

Tristan Paylor:

together and convince them that they should spend, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

half an hour discussing me on a podcast.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, yeah, I, we're both having ninth house

Kyle Pierce:

yours as well. So that sign was activated. Yeah, well, there

Kyle Pierce:

were like other transits, you could point to is maybe being

Kyle Pierce:

significant. I was like, the most exact and the most obvious.

Kyle Pierce:

Just found that pretty interesting and convincing.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, that was pretty uncanny. Yeah, and it's

Tristan Paylor:

just, you know, both of us being in a year where the midheaven is

Tristan Paylor:

activated. And both of us trying to start up an astrology career.

Tristan Paylor:

It's just it's very funny. It's, it does feel very faded when you

Tristan Paylor:

see that in a chart. Yeah, there's, I'm also looking at the

Tristan Paylor:

chart for the discovery of series, which is really fun.

Tristan Paylor:

Nice. Interestingly, both Jupiter and Saturn are in the

Tristan Paylor:

first house in the chart of series is discovery. Jupiter, of

Tristan Paylor:

course, being a brother to series and Saturn being the

Tristan Paylor:

father of series. So it's kind of cool that both of those

Tristan Paylor:

planets are quite prominent, they're in the first house and

Tristan Paylor:

Leo series herself is actually conjunct the midheaven in her

Tristan Paylor:

own discovery chart. In the sign of Taurus, which seems like a

Tristan Paylor:

very appropriate series sign, this series having so much lunar

Tristan Paylor:

symbolism, it's kind of fitting that, you know, she would be in

Tristan Paylor:

the sign of the Moon's exaltation, when she decided to

Tristan Paylor:

show up on our radar for the first time. And Pluto is also in

Tristan Paylor:

the eighth house in the chart of series is discovery. Which I

Tristan Paylor:

think is kind of interesting given that there is, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

the significant part of series mythology has to do with the

Tristan Paylor:

underworld and Pluto is kind of the main adversary in series is

Tristan Paylor:

most well known mythological tale. And you know, he's right

Tristan Paylor:

there in in the eighth house, which is about the underworld.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Is there an aspect with series at

Tristan Paylor:

all? Pluto is overcoming series via a sextile

Tristan Paylor:

so not a bad aspect. Pluto in serious discovery chart is in

Tristan Paylor:

Pisces in the eighth house and the end of the series is in

Tristan Paylor:

Taurus and the 10th Yeah, so you know It's it's not a tense

Tristan Paylor:

relationship necessarily, although Pluto does hold some

Tristan Paylor:

power in it. Yeah. And Sirius was actually also retrograde

Tristan Paylor:

during her discovery.

Kyle Pierce:

It's, you know, interesting. Unless there's like

Kyle Pierce:

other significations, we want to talk about, I have just a couple

Kyle Pierce:

of like, my weird kooky a tinfoil hat ideas maybe about

Kyle Pierce:

about series.

Tristan Paylor:

Those are my favorite ideas, please share?

Kyle Pierce:

Well, I would be interested to study the

Kyle Pierce:

relationship between Pluto and Ceres in maybe charts, that the

Kyle Pierce:

charts of people who may be live those those themes out, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, very visibly, and be nice to sort of think of, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

the degree to which Pluto can be considered malefic, right. It's

Kyle Pierce:

not everybody's favorite planet. I wouldn't strictly call them

Kyle Pierce:

alethic. But, you know, to whatever degree you could

Kyle Pierce:

describe Buddha that way, I'd like to think of of series as

Kyle Pierce:

like a benefic. Maybe. It's, I mean, obviously, it's, it's hard

Kyle Pierce:

to. Alright, does feel like a lot of the new bodies that we're

Kyle Pierce:

bringing in don't they're not happy bodies, they're not happy.

Kyle Pierce:

They're not bringing in happy topics, you know, we could use a

Kyle Pierce:

little more use of morbid ethics and astrology. But um, yeah, I

Kyle Pierce:

don't know that the fact that series got kind of promoted as

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto was being demoted, and that they are actually very

Kyle Pierce:

similar size. That series kind of has this special status, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, in the asteroid belt, and Pluto gets the sort of special

Kyle Pierce:

status in the Kuiper Belt is sort of bodies of significance,

Kyle Pierce:

you know?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, almost now, I almost don't ever want to

Tristan Paylor:

look at either one in a chart without the other. Yeah. And I

Kyle Pierce:

think that series of all of them, I think, if

Kyle Pierce:

there was gonna be a takeaway, that just from an astrological

Kyle Pierce:

or astronomical perspective, like it warrants bringing in to

Kyle Pierce:

at least be considered an equal weight to Pluto. I don't think

Kyle Pierce:

it's been studied is as thoroughly as Pluto. And weirdly

Kyle Pierce:

hasn't been taken as seriously as Pluto, even though we

Kyle Pierce:

discovered series was over 100 years before Pluto.

Tristan Paylor:

I have Pluto is very recent. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

we were like all over Pluto.

Tristan Paylor:

When we discovered it. And it's

Tristan Paylor:

interesting because series was I mean, I think it probably has to

Tristan Paylor:

do with a climate around astrology. I don't think in the

Tristan Paylor:

early 1800s That there was much of industry like astrology kind

Tristan Paylor:

of fell out of favor between the Renaissance. Yeah. And like

Tristan Paylor:

Victorian Age. Yeah, like that. It really started picking up

Tristan Paylor:

again, I guess in like the 1930s. So I wonder if you know,

Tristan Paylor:

the discovery of Sirius just kind of fell in that fallow

Tristan Paylor:

period for astrology? I'd need to look into that more to verify

Tristan Paylor:

that that's the case. But I wonder if that's what's going on

Tristan Paylor:

there. Because Sirius was declared a planet I believe when

Tristan Paylor:

she was first discovered.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, but you know, what makes sense is that it was

Kyle Pierce:

in the 1850s that Sirius was demoted to an asteroid. And even

Kyle Pierce:

though they're very similar bodies, I think Pluto has a lot

Kyle Pierce:

more mass overall. But during that period, from the 1850s, to

Kyle Pierce:

2006, was considered an asteroid. I mean, it was only

Kyle Pierce:

really in like the 1960s or so that people sort of going to

Kyle Pierce:

using the asteroids and astrology, maybe just kind of by

Kyle Pierce:

virtue of its designation, label, like it didn't get

Kyle Pierce:

treated the same way as Pluto.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. And it's hard not to see the symbolism

Tristan Paylor:

that Dimitra George was really trying to make the astrology

Tristan Paylor:

community aware of by talking about the asteroids, that

Tristan Paylor:

there's, you know, when when things become culturally

Tristan Paylor:

relevant, or become popular, there's, that's a sign that

Tristan Paylor:

something is in the sort of popular consciousness that's

Tristan Paylor:

important to look at. And, you know, when you have these

Tristan Paylor:

goddess figures, starting to become important in astrology,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, we're in the business of reading signs, and that is

Tristan Paylor:

possibly a sign of, you know, those topics really entering the

Tristan Paylor:

public consciousness in a meaningful way. So, it's almost

Tristan Paylor:

like, you know, the, the topics of pious it's this very, there's

Tristan Paylor:

a lot of gender stuff with the asteroids, too. Because, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, men illness as the default. The fact that the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids are goddesses, kind of makes them sort of unique,

Tristan Paylor:

because they stand in contrast to the default, you know, the,

Tristan Paylor:

the maleness of the traditional planets isn't, you know, like as

Tristan Paylor:

prominent a part of their symbolism, but the gender of the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids is discussed a lot as being relevant to their

Tristan Paylor:

symbolism and sort of, you know, the, the asteroids becoming

Tristan Paylor:

important, during, you know, women's liberation. And now, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, we've had like Pluto demoted and series promoted, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, in astronomical terms, and, you know, public awareness

Tristan Paylor:

around issues of gender is, you know, changing and evolving,

Tristan Paylor:

and, you know, non binary people are becoming more and more

Tristan Paylor:

visible. Like, yeah, I guess there's just, it's interesting

Tristan Paylor:

that that astronomically did seem to coincide with a change

Tristan Paylor:

of priorities or change of visibility, I guess, is the best

Tristan Paylor:

way to put it. In our culture, where, you know, series had been

Tristan Paylor:

kind of ignored, you know, because she's the incorrect

Tristan Paylor:

gender and was just around at the incorrect time, is now

Tristan Paylor:

becoming more and more relevant, and Pluto is becoming

Tristan Paylor:

potentially a bit less relevant as the sort of patriarchal God

Kyle Pierce:

that is actually get way out there. Are we into

Kyle Pierce:

the weeds, but, you know, the 1920s, that was a time that was

Kyle Pierce:

really kind of when the Women's Liberation Movement was picking

Kyle Pierce:

up, like, yeah, women's suffrage, but also kind of

Kyle Pierce:

faced, like a bit of a backlash to I do find it interesting that

Kyle Pierce:

the asteroids, I mean, they were always there, but they sort of

Kyle Pierce:

showed up, or we started paying more attention to them, maybe

Kyle Pierce:

when we needed sort of different bodies to project specific ideas

Kyle Pierce:

or themes on to, you know, like about parenthood, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

which sort of fell under the moon broadly. But maybe as

Kyle Pierce:

collectively as a society, we needed to explore other themes

Kyle Pierce:

around that more specific themes, kind of separately, but

Kyle Pierce:

meaning, and that could get into a whole nother world of

Kyle Pierce:

discussion. Like, why does astrology work? Anybody wants to

Kyle Pierce:

ask that one? You know?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, please, please ask a question with fun

Tristan Paylor:

find out episode. Yeah, that would be another special episode

Tristan Paylor:

where we only focus on that topic, I think.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, that Yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

All right. So we have we have Juno up next. Juno

Tristan Paylor:

was the third asteroid to be discovered. She is named for the

Tristan Paylor:

the highest goddess in the Roman Pantheon, and the wife of

Tristan Paylor:

Jupiter. So the equivalent of Hera in Greek mythology, the

Tristan Paylor:

wife of Zeus, there isn't as much sort of fun astronomical

Tristan Paylor:

stuff I discovered about Juno compared to what Kyle dug up

Tristan Paylor:

about series. Although One fun fact about Juno is that she is

Tristan Paylor:

very reflective. So even though Juno is not the largest of the

Tristan Paylor:

asteroids, she was discovered before a number of the larger

Tristan Paylor:

ones because of this reflective property.

Kyle Pierce:

It's interesting, it makes sense with being a

Kyle Pierce:

planet about relationships and companionship, being very

Kyle Pierce:

reflective.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, that actually does really fit,

Tristan Paylor:

doesn't it? I shouldn't I shouldn't underestimate the

Tristan Paylor:

symbolism of these little astronomical details.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, they all have little, little things that are

Kyle Pierce:

like, Oh, does that make sense?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it does fit. Do you know? I mean, it's

Tristan Paylor:

probably more I'm more familiar with, you know, the Greek

Tristan Paylor:

mythology with the mythology of Hera. I don't have any, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, particular stories memorized to tell but a

Tristan Paylor:

predominant theme in Harrah's myths is her relationship with

Tristan Paylor:

Zeus, and how rocky that relationship is. And yet, she

Tristan Paylor:

remains very committed and loyal to the relationship. I mean,

Tristan Paylor:

Zeus is notoriously bad at monogamy. And Hera, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

remains faithful and actually turns away potential suitors

Tristan Paylor:

quite consistently, which does, I think, with Juno and Juno's

Tristan Paylor:

signal vacations having to do with marriage and relationship?

Tristan Paylor:

There is that question of what makes Juno different from Venus,

Tristan Paylor:

which represents marriage and relationship. And I think maybe

Tristan Paylor:

one of the key significations that distinguishes Juno or makes

Tristan Paylor:

Juno a little bit more specific is that quality of loyalty and

Tristan Paylor:

fidelity. Yeah, devotion. Venus indicates relationships and

Tristan Paylor:

marriage but doesn't necessarily indicate. Like where Venus is

Tristan Paylor:

placed in your chart might say something about your

Tristan Paylor:

relationship values or probably, yeah, or what your marriage is

Tristan Paylor:

like, whereas the story of Juno is very specific, like Venus

Tristan Paylor:

could be potentially about any type of relationship or any type

Tristan Paylor:

of marriage.

Kyle Pierce:

I believe Aphrodite had many lovers, right? Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

Aphrodite was not faithful to her husband. And

Tristan Paylor:

it's there. There's a bit of a contrast between Aphrodite and

Tristan Paylor:

Hera when it comes to relationships where Aphrodite I

Tristan Paylor:

don't think wanted to be married, and was not happy with

Tristan Paylor:

her husband. And had numerous affairs whereas Hera was like,

Tristan Paylor:

ride or die. You know, yeah, I am committed to this, I, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, I'm not going to fool around with other people. So

Tristan Paylor:

that is sort of like a distinctive, like, subcategory

Tristan Paylor:

of relationships that I think Juno's specifically represents.

Tristan Paylor:

And so, you know, in a birth chart, I think Juno potentially

Tristan Paylor:

points to the issues around loyalty and relationships and

Tristan Paylor:

what we're willing to put up with in our relationships. Like

Tristan Paylor:

where is the boundary? Are we willing to put up with too much

Tristan Paylor:

in order to remain like loyal to our partners? And the Gina was

Tristan Paylor:

one where neither of us found as much sort of stuff going on in

Tristan Paylor:

our own charts of the charts of people we knew where we were

Tristan Paylor:

like, Oh, that really stands out as like a Juno situation. I

Tristan Paylor:

don't know maybe you've maybe you've discovered something

Tristan Paylor:

since we last spoke Pyle about Juno and a chart that stood out

Tristan Paylor:

to you.

Kyle Pierce:

I think but yeah, do you know? What's most

Kyle Pierce:

something I want listeners to bear in mind is that for all my

Kyle Pierce:

astrological genius, I haven't had a lot of time to sit with

Kyle Pierce:

with all these with these these archetypes right. So I kind of

Kyle Pierce:

want to you know, qualify my these are kind of hot takes or

Kyle Pierce:

you know, not you know, fully cooked thoughts about about Juno

Kyle Pierce:

but kind of relating to the idea that the asteroid sort of

Kyle Pierce:

bringing some some focus on two topics that are generally fall

Kyle Pierce:

under the umbrella of of other planets, like Juno maybe with

Kyle Pierce:

Venus and marriage, and sort of drawing attention to sort of the

Kyle Pierce:

other side of that, or sort of the maybe directing it towards

Kyle Pierce:

on backup a little. So think of Hera right? In the ship that she

Kyle Pierce:

had to put up with being married to Zeus, who is out sexing up

Kyle Pierce:

the world, right? And it's actually there's a really good

Kyle Pierce:

show on Netflix called Blood of Zeus, an anime I keep meaning to

Kyle Pierce:

watch that. It's really good. Yeah, you should totally watch

Kyle Pierce:

it. And I mean, hair is not depicted very, very kindly.

Kyle Pierce:

She's not very nice in the show, but you know, just thinking

Kyle Pierce:

about, like, traditionally, what was expected of women in

Kyle Pierce:

marriage, you know, to put up with your husband's shit and be

Kyle Pierce:

happy about it, because that is, you know, marriage is like,

Kyle Pierce:

that's your goal. That's what you want. You want to be a good

Kyle Pierce:

wife and get a good marriage. I feel like Juno's sort of points

Kyle Pierce:

out the qualities that go into devotion and commitment. And

Kyle Pierce:

what goes into marriages in long term partnerships in general,

Kyle Pierce:

which is a certain degree of putting up with with people you

Kyle Pierce:

should I mean, you can't have a relationship without you know,

Kyle Pierce:

that I know that are qualities about me that you know, might

Kyle Pierce:

get under people that I love skin sometimes but they love me

Kyle Pierce:

so you know, they, they they don't pay too much attention to

Kyle Pierce:

it or they they brush over it or you know, we get in spats about

Kyle Pierce:

it every now and then like that. That's part of of you being

Kyle Pierce:

committed to Somebody is accepting them for their their

Kyle Pierce:

flaws, their shortcomings. But I'm kind of with the Goddesses

Kyle Pierce:

sort of highlighting more of a feminine perspective on things.

Kyle Pierce:

Sort of. I don't know exactly when tuna was discovered, but I

Kyle Pierce:

Do you think about women's liberation? And like? Do you

Kyle Pierce:

ever watch Mad Men? How they did not watch me, man? Oh, yes,

Tristan Paylor:

I do know that they dig into issues of gender

Tristan Paylor:

in that particular world a lot in the show, but I've never

Tristan Paylor:

watched it.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, successful hotshot

Kyle Pierce:

men like going out and just sleeping with whoever they

Kyle Pierce:

could, while their wives, you know, stayed at home and did all

Kyle Pierce:

the cooking and cleaning and put up with it. And eventually, a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of them didn't, you know, and I think that those are

Kyle Pierce:

topics that became really relevant and made, you know, I

Kyle Pierce:

think women in general, started to be able to get into a

Kyle Pierce:

position where they could make demands of husbands to, to

Kyle Pierce:

degree that where it's just kind of accepted, more now, worrying

Kyle Pierce:

that right, but I don't think most people when they get

Kyle Pierce:

married now expect to have their wives you know, stay home and be

Kyle Pierce:

barefoot and pregnant, and, you know, let them frolic around and

Kyle Pierce:

do whatever they want, you know, there's more of a reciprocity,

Kyle Pierce:

mutual expectation, and I believe that is one of the

Kyle Pierce:

things that you know, was supposed to signify is an

Kyle Pierce:

emphasis on equal partnership.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, definitely.

Kyle Pierce:

I know, for me, I have Juno opposing my moon bear

Kyle Pierce:

very tightly. And I would say that is the element of judo that

Kyle Pierce:

I can identify with, you know, it's an opposition, which maybe

Kyle Pierce:

means some sort of conflict there. But it's actually

Kyle Pierce:

something that I've always sought out, like, almost to my

Kyle Pierce:

detriment in some cases where like, I needed things to be so

Kyle Pierce:

equal, that was sort of uncomfortable with any sort of

Kyle Pierce:

imbalance. Maybe go too far in trying to correct it or

Kyle Pierce:

something. Or you have Juno conjunct your Jupiter in your

Kyle Pierce:

11th? House? Right, Tristan?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, which is, I mean, I feel like that should

Tristan Paylor:

be it's interesting, because Juno and Jupiter are the married

Tristan Paylor:

couple. And they're within two degrees of each other in my

Tristan Paylor:

chart. So they're actually together in my chart. Yeah. And,

Tristan Paylor:

like, wildly opposing my moon, like they're pretty far apart.

Tristan Paylor:

But there is a sign based opposition going on there. I

Tristan Paylor:

don't know. I'm just thinking about my own attitude. There's

Tristan Paylor:

this sense to, in I mean, it's, it's hard, especially as you

Tristan Paylor:

know, a modern reader, not to look at the stories of Zeus and

Tristan Paylor:

Hera and just feel like this is a very dark archetype, because

Tristan Paylor:

it says so much about the subjugation of women in the

Tristan Paylor:

institution of marriage. Another another sort of aspects of the

Tristan Paylor:

Juno archetype is jealousy. And there's a way in in the

Tristan Paylor:

mythology in the stories of Zeus and Harrah's marriage, Hera

Tristan Paylor:

didn't really have any power. And the only power she did have

Tristan Paylor:

was to attack the women that Zeus became involved with. And

Tristan Paylor:

so there are a lot of stories of hair getting sort of pissed off

Tristan Paylor:

at zoo says various consorts and giving them trouble. Because of,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, what was considered to be her jealousy, I think there's

Tristan Paylor:

an interesting reflection in that of how women's needs in

Tristan Paylor:

relationships have been characterized as an

Tristan Paylor:

inconvenience to men, you know, and that's, I mean, there's any

Tristan Paylor:

stories too, I mean, it's also hard for me trying to find

Tristan Paylor:

myself in the stories is also hard for me as a queer person,

Tristan Paylor:

because they are very heteronormative. But I think you

Tristan Paylor:

know, even beyond the issue of like, relationships between

Tristan Paylor:

women and men, these stories tell us something about power

Tristan Paylor:

dynamics in relationships in general, obviously, the dynamics

Tristan Paylor:

between women and men who look a certain way but you know, that's

Tristan Paylor:

not the those are not the only two sort of categories of human

Tristan Paylor:

in which that power imbalance shows itself there is a power

Tristan Paylor:

imbalance in certain relationships where you know,

Tristan Paylor:

some people's needs are taken seriously, and some people's

Tristan Paylor:

needs are seen as an inconvenience and when people

Tristan Paylor:

whose needs are seen as an inconvenience to the dominant

Tristan Paylor:

group, try To get those needs met, there are not usually like

Tristan Paylor:

straightforward avenues for them to get those needs met, they

Tristan Paylor:

can't just declare I have these needs, like I need to be

Tristan Paylor:

fulfilled in my marriage as much as you do. And it's your job to

Tristan Paylor:

meet those needs. So you're kind of left with no other choice.

Tristan Paylor:

It's like, you know, Hera is not Harrah's not jealous. You know,

Tristan Paylor:

it's one of those. There's a way in which, you know, we

Tristan Paylor:

invalidate the needs and emotions of people that we treat

Tristan Paylor:

like crap so that we can continue justifying how we treat

Tristan Paylor:

them. And I think this is one of those cases where, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

what gets labeled as jealousy is actually like a cry for help and

Tristan Paylor:

communication. Yeah, it's a it's really convenient, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

when we're treating somebody like crap, and they've finally

Tristan Paylor:

had enough, and, you know, the situate there's such a power

Tristan Paylor:

imbalance that the only way they can communicate is, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

through like in the stories of Zeus and Hera, Hera, accosts

Tristan Paylor:

Zeus as lovers, there's, there's no other avenue, she has to

Tristan Paylor:

communicate with zoos that like this is not okay. And, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

and instead of going, you know, I need to look at my own

Tristan Paylor:

behavior, it's really easy to just say, well, that's her

Tristan Paylor:

problem. And she's just being jealous. And she's just being,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, crazy, which is another, you know, word, another

Tristan Paylor:

very problematic word that gets leveled at people in

Tristan Paylor:

relationships all the time when they're just like trying to

Tristan Paylor:

communicate their needs, and it's inconvenient to their

Tristan Paylor:

partners. So oh, they're just, they're just crazy, like they're

Tristan Paylor:

irrational their emotions are getting the better of them.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I always seen that as one of the like, big.

Kyle Pierce:

The key components of male privilege is that kind of

Kyle Pierce:

privilege to be dismissive of the, you know, the peculiar the

Kyle Pierce:

curiosities and the particularities of women's

Kyle Pierce:

issues, you know, it there isn't a bit of that diminutive, like,

Kyle Pierce:

quality to it. I mean, obviously, it gets very

Kyle Pierce:

complicated, but I think that those are like, really excellent

Kyle Pierce:

points. And I think, you know, you kind of see with with Hera,

Kyle Pierce:

even in that dynamic, the power gap and power dynamic in that

Kyle Pierce:

relationship is so deep set that yeah, here is only you can't

Kyle Pierce:

really confront Zeus directly. And so, you know, she has to go

Kyle Pierce:

kind of alternative directions or builds up and, and she gets

Kyle Pierce:

hysterical, right.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, another another good keyword, and

Kyle Pierce:

Zeus is able to discredit and dismiss para, as

Kyle Pierce:

you know, yeah, that crazy jealous goddess Hera.

Tristan Paylor:

So I wonder if you know, in a chart, Juno can

Tristan Paylor:

point to a desire for equality and relationships, like you

Tristan Paylor:

were, you know, saying with your own example, and perhaps point

Tristan Paylor:

to, you know, how our experience is how we experience power

Tristan Paylor:

within relationships. And I think, you know, the sort of

Tristan Paylor:

emergence of Juno as an asteroid that deserves a place in

Tristan Paylor:

astrology is, you know, perhaps a sign that we're starting to

Tristan Paylor:

question. Traditional relationships is, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

like, Hera is sort of the the model monogamous, and it's like,

Tristan Paylor:

is monogamy working? And if it's not working, but it's still a

Tristan Paylor:

valuable way of structuring our relationships, how do we get it

Tristan Paylor:

to work in a way that's fulfilling for, you know, the

Tristan Paylor:

partners that are involved in a monogamous relationship?

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, it should be a negotiation and is just

Kyle Pierce:

supposed to like a mandate that one party sort of declares an

Kyle Pierce:

over the other one.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, maybe relevant to these issues of

Tristan Paylor:

questioning relationship structures and questioning at

Tristan Paylor:

least what we think of as traditional models of

Tristan Paylor:

relationships. I was non monogamous I was polyamorous for

Tristan Paylor:

many years and changed you know my I am no longer you know,

Tristan Paylor:

polyamorous, I'm very happily monogamous now. But sort of

Tristan Paylor:

going through a period of questioning monogamy and

Tristan Paylor:

questioning monogamous relationships was very

Tristan Paylor:

insightful for me. I mean, I don't know if I can connect this

Tristan Paylor:

at all to Juno's placement in my own chart being you know,

Tristan Paylor:

conjunct Jupiter, I can't Yeah. All right. Well, I'm looking

Tristan Paylor:

forward to hearing what you have to say about this. Yeah, and I'm

Tristan Paylor:

also looking forward to us getting to palace and, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

palaces ability to notice patterns, because I feel like

Tristan Paylor:

you are very skilled at that, and you've got a prominent

Tristan Paylor:

palace in your chart. But yeah, that that period of questioning

Tristan Paylor:

monogamy, you know, ultimately I did decide Monogamy was the

Tristan Paylor:

correct relationship structure for me. But I went through a

Tristan Paylor:

period of questioning it. And something that I learned during

Tristan Paylor:

that period of questioning is that if people like polyamorous

Tristan Paylor:

relationships are becoming increasingly visible, and, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, one of the sort of challenges of polyamory is that

Tristan Paylor:

in order to do it successfully, it requires a lot of open

Tristan Paylor:

communication and a lot of negotiating boundaries and

Tristan Paylor:

expectations. But what's interesting to me about that is

Tristan Paylor:

that, you know, it's sort of we, we expect that non monogamous

Tristan Paylor:

relationships are going to require so much communication

Tristan Paylor:

and negotiation, but we underestimate how much

Tristan Paylor:

communication and negotiation is required to keep monogamous

Tristan Paylor:

relationships functional. It's, and there's a way because

Tristan Paylor:

monogamy is the default setting. There is a way that I think

Tristan Paylor:

people get into relationships with an expectation of monogamy.

Tristan Paylor:

And what monogamy means to the people in that relationship is

Tristan Paylor:

never discussed, right? It's like, does monogamy mean that I

Tristan Paylor:

don't hold hands with my friend like a platonic hand holding?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. Is that you know, am I? Is it okay for me to flirt with

Tristan Paylor:

people online? Like where? Where do we draw the line, that is

Tristan Paylor:

something that needs to be discussed. And not just assumed,

Tristan Paylor:

but because when something is the default, a lot of things are

Tristan Paylor:

left up to assumptions, and not communicated. And I think

Tristan Paylor:

they're, I don't think that either polyamory or monogamy is

Tristan Paylor:

better than the other. But I think where monogamy often fails

Tristan Paylor:

is that people rely on assumptions and don't

Tristan Paylor:

communicate their expectations out of the gate, because we're

Tristan Paylor:

sort of able to follow this default script for our

Tristan Paylor:

relationships. And it's not sort of like in our face all the time

Tristan Paylor:

that oh, we really need to think about this, or we really need to

Tristan Paylor:

talk about our feelings on this. Whereas with polyamory, it's

Tristan Paylor:

like, you know, very, very clear that like, oh, we really need to

Tristan Paylor:

talk about our feelings about this issue, because there is no

Tristan Paylor:

cultural script for us to follow. We're making things up

Tristan Paylor:

as we go along.

Kyle Pierce:

I think I just think you just heard a swish,

Kyle Pierce:

of, you know, like, the basket. You just nailed it. No, that's

Kyle Pierce:

exactly it. Because we don't have that cultural script, like

Kyle Pierce:

you said, like we don't have, it's not implicit or implied

Kyle Pierce:

anymore, you know, those things do need to be discussed. And I

Kyle Pierce:

think that mean, that's kind of what just mean, the asteroids in

Kyle Pierce:

general, like are splitting off these these topics, these things

Kyle Pierce:

that are relevant, that need to be kind of brought to our

Kyle Pierce:

attention, sort of separated from kind of the idea of

Kyle Pierce:

marriage and partnership in general. Because that whole idea

Kyle Pierce:

has gotten a little, you know, there's some problems in there

Kyle Pierce:

that maybe we need to sort through. So we need something

Kyle Pierce:

else to like, reflect that on.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it's like highlighting that specific issue

Tristan Paylor:

and sort of putting a neon sign, you know, this subset of

Tristan Paylor:

relationship issues that, you know, is a sign that like, you

Tristan Paylor:

guys really need to examine this.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Yeah. And just thinking about you and your

Kyle Pierce:

chart is actually something that I looked up, because I remember

Kyle Pierce:

now, and so much, has been a blur of researching asteroids. I

Kyle Pierce:

forgot about it. But I'm really telling me that you met Keith

Kyle Pierce:

was like, at the very end of your seventh house here, right?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, yeah. The very tail end of my seventh

Tristan Paylor:

house year, like, two or three days before it ended?

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. And I was kind of looking at the dates and

Kyle Pierce:

I mean, it wasn't perfect, but I imagined that the period

Kyle Pierce:

building up to that, that, you know, I haven't really gone into

Kyle Pierce:

huge detail, but I mentioned the period that preceded meeting

Kyle Pierce:

Keith entailed a lot of reevaluate, reevaluating nice

Kyle Pierce:

and getting some new ideas about how you want to proceed and

Kyle Pierce:

relationships which you know, coincides with Saturn Return and

Kyle Pierce:

seventh house and everything but Uranus was also transiting it

Kyle Pierce:

was in Taurus at the time. It just kind of gotten in there I

Kyle Pierce:

think. Now, if I identified if it had gotten to Jupiter and

Kyle Pierce:

Juno yet in your chart, but you know, you kind of undergoing a

Kyle Pierce:

be considered maybe a radical change in your relationship

Kyle Pierce:

style around Uranus transiting Juno, that sort of tie in to

Kyle Pierce:

that that theme also having you know, Juno and Jupiter Trine is

Tristan Paylor:

the ruler of your seventh. And pretty closely

Tristan Paylor:

to

Kyle Pierce:

just given from what you said, it sounds like

Kyle Pierce:

you have lived in and done a lot of thinking about about the the

Kyle Pierce:

topics related to Juno. So

Tristan Paylor:

that's the good job. Kyle is a really good

Tristan Paylor:

astrologer, I just want to take a moment to point that out to

Tristan Paylor:

everyone who's thinking about getting an astrology reading

Tristan Paylor:

that you will get insights like this from this human. So do it.

Tristan Paylor:

Get a reading from Kyle. Because yeah, that's, that's exactly it.

Kyle Pierce:

Thank you for the plug Tristan, you are at least a

Kyle Pierce:

equally good astrologer. And I think the thing is that it's

Kyle Pierce:

really hard to get those kinds of insights on yourself. It's

Kyle Pierce:

true, Google looking at your own chart, like look at it all day

Kyle Pierce:

you need, it's like cutting your own hair, you know, you to

Kyle Pierce:

really get a nice, good clean cut, like you need granite, I

Kyle Pierce:

cut my own hair now ever since the pandemic, but I do a pretty

Kyle Pierce:

good job. But it you know, there's angles and spots that

Kyle Pierce:

you can't see that that other people can seeing over the, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, a rating with a excellent astrologer like Tristan will

Kyle Pierce:

help you get that kind of insight for me too, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

I'm alright.

Tristan Paylor:

It is it is true. It's because I think we

Tristan Paylor:

tend to we fixate on certain things, and we tend to find what

Tristan Paylor:

we're looking for. And that's when it really helps to have

Tristan Paylor:

someone else's perspective. Because I would not have caught

Tristan Paylor:

that. And that is like eerily accurate. Where it was a very

Tristan Paylor:

radical change. I went from a polyamorous relationship and

Tristan Paylor:

from only being in polyamorous relationships for almost a

Tristan Paylor:

decade to deciding this isn't for me anymore. And the reasons,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, and this isn't a criticism of polyamory in

Tristan Paylor:

general, you know, I'm sure it works great for some people. But

Tristan Paylor:

I think the reasons that I was, were not the healthiest reasons.

Tristan Paylor:

And I went through this long period of really examining what

Tristan Paylor:

my reasons were for seeking that kind of relationship structure

Tristan Paylor:

and whether or not my needs were being met within it. And the

Tristan Paylor:

conclusion I came to is that my needs were not being met within

Tristan Paylor:

that particular structure. Yeah, so it was, it was a pretty

Tristan Paylor:

drastic change. Thank you, Uranus, and Juno, for helping me

Tristan Paylor:

figure my shit out.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Well, are we think that's all we have for

Kyle Pierce:

Juno or

Tristan Paylor:

I actually have a really good chart example. For

Tristan Paylor:

a Juno placement. I have Katharine Hepburn's chart, you

Tristan Paylor:

Hathorne Hepburn probably doesn't need any introduction.

Tristan Paylor:

Really. She was. I think the most I think she's won the most

Tristan Paylor:

Oscars of any actress. She was like a classical Hollywood

Tristan Paylor:

actress. Katharine Hepburn was born with Scorpio rising. Her

Tristan Paylor:

ascendant was at seven degrees of Scorpio, and her Juno was at

Tristan Paylor:

five degrees of Scorpio and retrograde which may or may not

Tristan Paylor:

be relevant, but she was a very, very fiercely independent woman

Tristan Paylor:

who married briefly, but she described herself as not being

Tristan Paylor:

such a great wife. And she was very famous for being in a

Tristan Paylor:

relationship with actor Spencer Tracy, who was her co star in

Tristan Paylor:

nine different films. And Spencer Tracy was they were, I

Tristan Paylor:

believe, both married when they met and started having their

Tristan Paylor:

affair. And Spencer Tracy actually remained married to his

Tristan Paylor:

wife, even while having the affair. They never separated.

Tristan Paylor:

Katharine Hepburn never wanted a marriage with him. So there was

Tristan Paylor:

no like competition in that sense. I guess that something

Tristan Paylor:

may be unusual about this relationship for Catherine is

Tristan Paylor:

that while she was generally so independent when it came to

Tristan Paylor:

Tracy, she was very devoted. She actually spent several years

Tristan Paylor:

Who's taking care of him when his health started declining in

Tristan Paylor:

the 60s, she took a five year break from her career, which is

Tristan Paylor:

really unusual for her. And a lot of people, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

described her as being like very, like she changed when she

Tristan Paylor:

was around Spencer Tracy, she just lit up around to him and

Tristan Paylor:

she'd say, you know, like she would do anything for him. So

Tristan Paylor:

it's just that when I think about Zeus and Hera and

Tristan Paylor:

mythology I think about you know, the constant affairs and

Tristan Paylor:

this weird contrast between you know, Zeus is infidelity and

Tristan Paylor:

Harris devotion, like her almost single minded devotion. And I

Tristan Paylor:

guess, you know, maybe there's some of those themes kind of

Tristan Paylor:

coming up there where there's like, you know, an affair

Tristan Paylor:

happening outside of a marriage, but there is also that theme of

Tristan Paylor:

devotion.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Surely was Aphrodite married to slipping my

Kyle Pierce:

mind?

Tristan Paylor:

Her Festus but I don't think she was happy with

Tristan Paylor:

that marriage. And she had an affair famously with areas that

Tristan Paylor:

the gods shamed them for.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, they were kind of obsessed with each other

Kyle Pierce:

a little bit. Surely, from gather it was. I mean, there's a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of jealousy with Aphrodite, actually, which we'll get to

Kyle Pierce:

Palace here. After that, he was very jealous of palace. And all

Kyle Pierce:

the time that palace got to spend with Aries.

Tristan Paylor:

Do we want to move on to palace?

Kyle Pierce:

Oh, well, listeners, Kyle here. I imagine

Kyle Pierce:

you've been so enraptured by Tristan and I's riveting and

Kyle Pierce:

incisive commentary of the asteroids, that you didn't even

Kyle Pierce:

realize that we are rapidly approaching the two hour mark.

Kyle Pierce:

And we only finished discussing two promised for asteroids. Now

Kyle Pierce:

you're probably thinking, wow, Tristan, and Kyle. Those guys

Kyle Pierce:

are pretty hardcore. And you're right. We are hardcore. But we

Kyle Pierce:

also care about you listeners. And just like eating too much in

Kyle Pierce:

one sitting in give you a bit of a tummy ache. Taking in too much

Kyle Pierce:

information can have similar effects on your mind. Which is

Kyle Pierce:

why we would like to give you an opportunity to digest everything

Kyle Pierce:

by breaking this episode into two more reasonably portioned

Kyle Pierce:

but equally delicious courses for the Augustus glutes out

Kyle Pierce:

there listening on release day, you will find a second helping

Kyle Pierce:

waiting for you tomorrow. But for the rest of you. You can

Kyle Pierce:

continue on with palace and Vesta at your leisure by

Kyle Pierce:

download inside beat this episode. As always, if you have

Kyle Pierce:

a question you'd like to hear answered on astrology hotline,

Kyle Pierce:

shoot us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com Thanks for

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About the Podcast

Astrology Hotline
The Podcast that Answers All Your Burning Birth Chart and Astrology Questions
Astrology Hotline is the podcast that answers all your burning birth chart and astrology questions. Hosted by astrologer Kyle Pierce, the show provides an open forum for listeners to have their questions answered and facilitate discussions about a broad range of topics with guests including some of astrology's most up-and-coming astrologers. Whatever it is that has you stumped when it comes to astrology or your birth chart, Astrology Hotline is here to get you the answers your looking for. Send us your questions at astrologyhotlinepod@gmail.com.

About your host

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Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce is a Professional Astrologer with an inclusive approach based primarily on Hellenistic techniques. He lives in Michigan.