Episode 18
The Houses I - Astrology 101
We begin our coverage of the meanings of the 12 houses of astrology with an overview of what the houses are, their role in astrology, and some of the ways their meaning is derived. We covered the first of 4 angular triads which includes houses 1, 2 and 12. Joining us for the discussion is tarot card reader extraordinaire, Shay, to help add some depth to our understanding of the houses by blending their meanings with the symbols found in the tarot.
Shay - Instagram: @lightningwildflower
Kyle Pierce: https://kylepierceastrologer.com - Instagram: @astrology4earthlings - Twitter: @kyleVpierce
Tristan Paylor: https://badsignastrology.ca - Instagram: @badsignastrology - Twitter: @badsignastro
Information on Different House Systems: House Systems Episode of Ghost of a Podcast and Patrick Watson Article on House Systems
Rationale for Planetary Joys Article
Lofi Hiphop Intro 13 by TaigaSoundProd
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/7178-lofi-hiphop-intro-13
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Happy Calm Intro 05 by TaigaSoundProd
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/6867-happy-calm-intro-05
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Disco Club by WinnieTheMoog
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Mentioned in this episode:
3 of Wands Tarot and Astrology Club
https://www.clubhouse.com/join/3-of-wands/6Apkpnp8?utm_medium=ch_invite&utm_campaign=XhwKT6no9_GIZUx-aCHuNg-74721
Transcript
Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer your burning astrology questions. In keeping with our latest series, we're doing something a little bit
Kyle Pierce:Kyle's in the...house. I'm going to totaly delete that.
Tristan Paylor:Oh no, you are not I will not allow you to delete that. That stays in. Yeah. All right. And our special guest today is Shay a, an incredible tarot reader who has come to join us to
Kyle Pierce:Thanks for joining us, Shay.
Shay:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. I love listening to the show and excited to actually get to talk to and talk so that people can hear me and not just, you know, talk to myself
Kyle Pierce:I like imagining that.
Shay:I mean, honestly, sometimes I'm messaging Tristan during episodes all about them.
Tristan Paylor:there's something like kind of meta about that, like, listening to two of me simultaneously. Well, I met like, yeah, me from that you're listening to it's time travel, you're
Shay:Through the magic of technology.
Kyle Pierce:My brain is bending.
Shay:Shall we get into our episode?
Kyle Pierce:No, no, no, no, we need to talk about this more.
Tristan Paylor:I was gonna ask if you wanted to introduce yourself, share and talk to us a bit about how you got into tarot and all that good stuff.
Unknown:Sure. So I started reading Tarot about two years ago. So I've been reading it for a couple years and started as a way to enhance my journaling practice. I enjoy writing. So this was a fun way
Tristan Paylor:Thank you for joining us. This is exciting.
Kyle Pierce:Thank you for joining us. Yeah, I know, I totally know that I'm not the one who came up with this term. But I you know, it's, it makes sense that people say it or, you know, maybe I made
Shay:Totally. As soon as I found out that there were certain correspondences between the symbolism in the tarot cards and astrology then I felt like I needed to learn more about astrology too.
Tristan Paylor:So yeah, you get one set of tarot cards. And next thing you know, you have 10 sets of runes and 50 sets of cards and oracle cards and your desk looks like a conspiracy board of birth
Kyle Pierce:Imagining like a propaganda film like the equivalent of like Reefer Madness, for astrology.
Shay:Astrology,
Kyle Pierce:you buy one deck, a deck of cards, and suddenly you're wearing shawls and consulting with astrologers.
Shay:Oh, my goodness.
Tristan Paylor:Terrible.
Shay:Slippery slope.
Tristan Paylor:Speaking of consulting with astrologers, should we jump into the houses into our main astrological topic. Let's do it.
Shay:This wasn't our main topic. Yeah, sounds
Tristan Paylor:good. So I want to start us off just with some like basic background info on what the houses are and where they get their meaning and that sort of thing before we dive into the
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, so basically, the houses in astrology are derived from the relationship to the horizon, essentially. Yeah, take it away, Tristan,
Tristan Paylor:you're off to a good start. Because that is totally what the houses are, they're defined by their relationship to the horizon. So we went over the signs, which are similar to houses
Tristan Paylor:a big circle that that looks like it's divided into 12 slices of pie. And, you know, the houses that are above the ascendant descendant axis are the houses above the horizon. So that's, you know, the
Kyle Pierce:fundamentally where they sort of derive their meaning. Because, you know, the sign of Scorpio always means, you know, the things that Scorpio means for the most part. But what it means
Tristan Paylor:mats, signs, or where the celestial bodies are in the ecliptic houses are where the celestial bodies are relative to your local horizon. And that local part is really key because
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, perhaps we should talk about how the houses get their meaning. Are we there yet? Yeah, let's do a little more.
Tristan Paylor:Now. I think I think that covers it.
Unknown:Did you want to mention the different house systems? Yeah, there are different houses. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Tristan Paylor:Let's mention that briefly. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, so there are many different house systems that are basically just different ways of organizing the Zodiac into 12 different houses. So while here on astrology hotline, we prefer to
Tristan Paylor:isn't this the like, older is better? There's a name for this fallacy.
Kyle Pierce:No, yeah, my logic for the whole sign house system being the best is really not related to it being the oldest. I just tried like a bunch of them and whole sign just works. And it kind of
Kyle Pierce:chart for your answer. Anyway. Really it started with the whole sign house system with the first sign, the sign that is rising over the horizon at any given moment being the first house. And really
Tristan Paylor:well, I wasn't I wasn't gonna get into a whole thing about different systems because they are really abstract, like they're very mathematical. They're, it's like using it's different
Tristan Paylor:chart for yourself on astro.com, the default will be placidus. So that will probably be the host system you're most familiar with. That I think that's all I really wanted to say on that was just
Kyle Pierce:Are you sure we can't complicate it a little more? Really, really wouldn't?
Shay:Probably good.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Yeah. So it'd be getting into the House meetings.
Shay:Yeah. So how do the houses get their meaning?
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. I knew I was like, I know it's gonna be good to have a school teacher on with me, because I do like the Sunday School teacher thing. And I was like, I will finally have somebody.
Kyle Pierce:Like, always wanted to be a teacher. And never, I actually never got to be one. So I guess. But, but you guys do. And that was my chance.
Tristan Paylor:I feel like I feel like you would be I believe in you. Yeah, I feel like you'd be the like, cool. Eccentric history professor. Kind of like, like you would go off topic like you go
Kyle Pierce:I just a year on reading my fantasy, it was already constructed. In my mind. I was like, oh, yeah, staff is gonna hate me. Especially supervisors, like
Tristan Paylor:students are gonna love it. They're gonna be like, whatever Kyle talks about is fascinating. And I'm going to remember it forever, but it's not going to be like this. It won't be
Kyle Pierce:There's a what is it right like a rate your professor? There's a hotness what is it called? is there's a site, you can read the hotness of your professor. Wow, guys. Yeah.
Tristan Paylor:I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah. And
Kyle Pierce:I was like, That's my actually my real goal. I just want to be I want to be the hot professor has everything to do with being the cool Professor really, at the end of the day? If
Shay:if you're cool, you're also hot. How does that work?
Tristan Paylor:Those two qualities overlap even though they're opposite.
Kyle Pierce:And as I'm as I'm saying this out loud though, that sounds really creepy. That's not what happened my
Shay:let's not go down that path. And so speaking of astrologist boundaries,
Tristan Paylor:speaking of boundaries, the boundaries of the house well the meanings meanings and houses right how do they what is the source of their being? thing, and like, probably the primary
Tristan Paylor:cross is like, you know, the sun at its height, everything's very bright and visible. And then the right arm of the cross is where the sunsets and things are kind of dying away and getting darker.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, so really, I mean, you're deriving a lot of meaning just from the signs that are on the angles, sign that as rising, the sign that is at the lowest point below the earth sign that
Tristan Paylor:So the angular houses or the angles are those points of the cross that I was mentioning. And that's the term because astrology is full of jargon, we have to call it something
Tristan Paylor:close to the first house. And so the second house is what supports the first house and the 11th House supports the 10th house, and so on. And so if you have planets in those houses, they do have a
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, one thing I would like to just think of the whole thing was actually kind of how it was conceived. And Greek or Hellenistic astrology is that thing, the steering the helm of the
Shay:Yeah, you could have the signifying card to represent the person who is asking the question, there might be cards for the past, the present and the future. So yeah, there's some similarities
Tristan Paylor:I like that, like that way of looking at it.
Kyle Pierce:Well, then you can also further derive meaning from the houses by their relationship or their aspect to the first house.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, the, if you're new new to astrology and new to aspects, this mate might make more sense after listening to the episode on aspects. But aspects are essentially relationships
Tristan Paylor:having this sort of geometrical relationship to the first house, and therefore representing things that are hidden or invisible, sometimes, you know, in, in traditional texts, especially things that
Kyle Pierce:derive a ton of meaning from those relationships. And then probably one of the other really important ways of deriving meaning with the houses is through derivative houses. So which is
Tristan Paylor:Totally. And you can you can get pretty wild with that.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, it's one to not go too far. I think cuz some people will go really far with it. And sometimes you can't, depending. It's, it can get tricky, but it sort of depends on like the
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. And I guess the last thing we wanted to talk about in terms of how the houses you know, come to me and what they mean is, in Hellenistic astrology, the planets were assigned to
Shay:Yes, so with the planets are associated with different cards in the tarot deck. So for example, and we'll go into I'll go into this a little bit more as we're looking in the different
Kyle Pierce:I'm getting excited because I'm already like, thinking of all these different ways that like the associated planet and house like have similar meanings.
Unknown:It's It's fun, because sometimes the meanings are really obvious. And sometimes it takes a little bit more diving in and what I was looking at the planetary joys for the different houses, and
Kyle Pierce:one to discuss as we go along. occurs to me that you know, there are other ways that the houses are have meanings derived from them that aren't, there may be newer, you know, one very
Kyle Pierce:know, similar with like, Tarot and astrology, sometimes, there's ways that like, The symbolism is really, really meshes and is like, wow, you know, that vibes super well. But you don't want it to be
Shay:Yeah, that's right, it's not gonna work out perfect every time. But it can give an additional layer of meaning
Kyle Pierce:exactly an additional layer of meaning.
Tristan Paylor:And like looking at at the same thing from multiple perspectives is always useful, especially when it comes to divination. And so that's why I would advise, like, even if you find the
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I think that my rule personally, with that is like, look for the meanings that really seem to be consistent and show up consistently. When interpreting charts and stuff are the
Tristan Paylor:I like that a lot. It's sort of like the rule of threes, where if, if a meaning comes up three or more times, you know, from from different perspectives, then, you know, like,
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, that makes sense. And then the planetary joins them.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, so I'll just briefly list which planets rejoice where and of course, as we get into the houses individually, we will get more into the connection between that planet and that
Shay:Yeah. When you say rejoices, would that be like if the planet was a person that would be their favorite place to be like, not necessarily their home, but where they feel the most excited to
Kyle Pierce:It's a good point, or it's a good question.
Tristan Paylor:It is a really good question, because it does make me think like, what? What did the ancient astrologers specifically mean by rejoice?
Kyle Pierce:That's a good translation, like,
Tristan Paylor:thinking about the rationale for why they rejoice in those places. I think that that is a pretty good way of looking at it. Che. Again, I don't want to like go off on a 45 minute
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. The I would say that the simplest answer is that the, the meanings of those houses are most compatible with the meanings of those planets. Yeah, rejoicing?
Shay:Yeah, gotcha.
Kyle Pierce:That'll definitely be something we, we dig into
Tristan Paylor:how I was just, I was just gonna say, that was how I did my astrology course. Because there are a lot of like, 16 hour lectures in the Hellenistic astrology course. And I would
Kyle Pierce:I wish I could take more classes in my car, where I
Tristan Paylor:certainly do your best listening. So I guess the last little sort of introductory thing I wanted to mention, just as a guideline, when you're actually looking at your chart, and
Tristan Paylor:with that wire houses in my chart empty, does that mean that like, there's nothing going on in that part of my life. And if a house is empty, it still has a ruler, it's still a part of your life. So
Kyle Pierce:got Yeah, center of gravity in your life, you know?
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, that's a good description. But that doesn't mean that the empty houses are not also important, or that you should ignore them. Or it's not, it's not a thing to worry about. Don't
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, if you don't have a planet in the first house, you're still a person.
Tristan Paylor:You still don't have a personality. All right. Is there anything else sort of introductory that either of you want to get into before we jump in to the meanings of the individual
Shay:No, I think that that was a really good intro. I I feel like I know that I'm okay. Let's try this again. That was a really good intro. I feel like I learned a lot just Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:Should we start with the the first house or the first triad or?
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, so the, the way we're going to format this is we are going to go through the angular triads. So we're going to talk about the angular house In each triad, and then you know,
Kyle Pierce:Let's kill it. Kill the end. It's the seventh pass, because that's what it is kind of. Yeah. Well, and I'm looking for I'm looking forward to that. Try it. Yeah. It's a fun. It's a fun
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, the scary triad.
Kyle Pierce:All the death and illness. And marriage.
Shay:Oh, my gosh, the triad of do
Tristan Paylor:the triad of doom? Yeah.
Shay:We should name them all. I mean, did they have names?
Kyle Pierce:Near what we call it? I haven't maybe we should this triad? Of Yeah, well, maybe one will emerge, you know, as we're, as far as we,
Tristan Paylor:it's good. It's the triad of the self, I think is one.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. So easy. No, that
Shay:means just trying to find a clever way.
Kyle Pierce:Actually, you know, I should see what it actually is rising over the horizon right now. Pull up the chart for our beginning of our discussion. And that is really at the heart, I think of
Shay:That's so beautiful, merging and emerging as an individual.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, sort of becoming a distinct person. The planet that rejoices there,
Kyle Pierce:Leo perfect.
Tristan Paylor:Is not not a planet.
Kyle Pierce:It's not a planet, but it's Leo
Tristan Paylor:rising. It's a good guy.
Kyle Pierce:It's a good first house sign. I mean, is one of the deals pretty much itself. Just why I tend to think that, you know, if you want to derive meaning from the houses, based on you know,
Tristan Paylor:New brand, solid brand,
Kyle Pierce:you know, Capricorn rising, it's gotta got Aries for the fourth house that got you know, the fiery heart of Aries kind of underlying things. But, you know, they're, they're sexy,
Tristan Paylor:Oh, my God. Alright. The first house. That was I was going to talk a little bit about mercury, rejoicing there. And some other reason for mercury, loving the first house. Mercury,
Tristan Paylor:that stuff. They meet in the first house and create a whole person.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. The first house in traditional astrology the first house was really the the new part of the chart, the first house and the ruling planet. And I think that is an important thing to
Shay:That's what you come in with.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, it's like the first card in a Tarot Spread. Imagine.
Shay:Yeah, I'm also thinking about Mercury. Having its Troy there, Mercury being speaking and communicating, which is done by the individual. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor:that's a really good point.
Kyle Pierce:And one thing that, you know, interesting, I both talk a lot about the first house is it does kind of point to agency. The magician also it's really about using your will to manifest
Unknown:make it happen. Yeah, exactly. The magician is the card associated with mercury, which can be a card about what you're birthing into the world, what you're creating and manifesting. Yeah, so
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I love that. They can also be a couple of ways that I look at the first house are that it is the context for everything that happens in your chart. So it's really useful for
Tristan Paylor:Mars and Saturn in their chart, that's going to look different for somebody with cancer rising, who's ruled by the moon and a certain sign that's going to look different for somebody with Leo
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Like, where is everything happening relative to the first house. And that is going to tell you a lot about how it shows up in the person's, you know, psychology in their life
Unknown:Yeah, and you can also another fun way to kind of connect it to Taro is to look at the your ruler of the first house. So for example, my first house sign is Scorpio, which is traditionally
Unknown:and find the card associated with that to just get some more depth into what your first house might mean to you or how how it's shown up over the years.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. So yes, that's the high The High Priestess for you and me, Kyle, the two cancer risings
Kyle Pierce:bases. Were mysterious sitting there looking like we know everything that's going on without actually telling. No, I mean, that's cool. I guess. The tower is like your first house seems
Shay:I'd rather not
Kyle Pierce:have. I think that is like the subjective Scorpio experience not to go on a tangent. But it is like, Yeah, everybody's like, Oh, Scorpio is so cool. There's all this stuff. And it's
Tristan Paylor:Like, why do I have to do it? Why do I
Kyle Pierce:always having to collapse into a heap of rubble and rise again, it's super powerful. It takes less energy.
Shay:Yeah. Another thing that is kind of fun is you can take, you can kind of create some questions for yourself to read cards on based on first house topics. So asking how do I see myself? How do
Kyle Pierce:I like that. So che you have mercury in the first house to write and it's it's joy. I'm immediately thinking of like a magician. Like making a tower collapse badass.
Shay:Oh my gosh. I feel like we've had a conversation about a magician making a tower collapse at some point. Isn't that one of the taro dough as the magician the magician I think it
Kyle Pierce:was in one of our club the one of the rooms I think it might have been Megan actually bringing it because she had a card it was the from the witch modern witch witch tarot deck and, and
Unknown:I did that and I'm not ashamed.
Tristan Paylor:What I do I feel like we said we should put up that image be like, you know, if anyone wants to know who we've who we've brought on our show, this image encapsulates her. Oh my
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, anyway, the first house right, what else? It's, there's like almost you could not talk about the first house? And a lot of ways because it is. It's just like, oh, yeah, that's the
Tristan Paylor:I think. I don't think it's a totally blank, empty room. Yeah, I think another interpretive principle, that also comes from Hellenistic astrology. The, the Hellenistic name for
Tristan Paylor:direction of the topics of the fifth house, that tends to be a focal point. Or, you know, I exercise my my agency, I sort of steer my life in the direction of the fifth house and you know, Scorpio
Kyle Pierce:I was actually just thinking about, you know, how it actually was really used? What was the nautical technique, I think, balance I don't know, they're really like looking at like where the
Tristan Paylor:Are you asking me? Should you drive you drive? Right?
Shay:I prefer not to.
Kyle Pierce:Well, yeah, I mean, if there's actually some symbolic rebel resonance there, at least with some of them, just thinking about like a fifth house, it's like you're kind of bottom. It's
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it gives it gives the whole chart direction, it gives it a place to go, it's sort of like the North Star. And so that's why you know, whatever else, you're interpreting your
Kyle Pierce:Um, yeah, probably another big important first house topic, that it won't tell you everything about this. But sometimes I think it gets overlooked leaned on but appearance, the first
Shay:like first impressions. Like having
Kyle Pierce:you know, if you have Saturn in your first house or opposing your ascendant, you might tend to be a little more lean, you know,
Tristan Paylor:are more reserved, more reserved? Yeah, it's right. Like, it's sometimes you see the correlations of physical appearance, but I try not to, I feel like those can get problematic really
Kyle Pierce:can Oh, yeah. I mean, you can overdo it has.
Shay:Yeah, I was also thinking about how your appearance can change over time soon. But if the chart is something that represents you, throughout your whole life, you know, your parents isn't
Tristan Paylor:the point? Like,
Kyle Pierce:note that we're not sorry.
Tristan Paylor:I was gonna say like, you know, maybe if you're a Gemini rising, or you've got mercury in the first house or something, you know, that might indicate, like being more inclined to
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, and if you have mercury in your first time, if you have mercury in your first house, you might be a little more fastidious about your appearance, not just hideous, but you might
Kyle Pierce:that it means everything
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it's like that rule of threes if theme repeats in a chart three or more times that's something very worth paying attention to.
Kyle Pierce:would do you take like a similar approach when you're interpreting a spread che
Shay:approaches and how can you
Kyle Pierce:like what imagine you know, if you're looking at the sea, you have a spread where you know, the first card is like the significator for the person or the situation in general mean You're
Shay:Yeah, for sure they're all going to work together kind of any would look for patterns, I guess similarly to looking in, in the chart, you know, if you're seeing a certain element showing up a lot
Shay:would kind of be a first house card, maybe even your attitude to the situation, or you at this moment. So any kind of any kind of spread physicians associated with the person themselves, I think
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I love the fool is the first, it does seem to have a lot of resonance with the first house because at least my understanding of the fools it's, it is, it's very much like in the
Kyle Pierce:point within that house. But looking at, like planets that make an aspect to that point, are often very influential on the first house itself.
Tristan Paylor:That's a really good point. A definite like any sort of aspect, especially if it's applying within three degrees of the Ascendant is something that I pay close attention to, because
Shay:I was just thinking about, you know, some some activities that might be ways to engage with your first house, just kind of any kind of self reflection or journaling, that also kind of takes
Kyle Pierce:Self care that's coming into my mind. That can mean a lot
Shay:of things. Oh, yeah, for sure.
Kyle Pierce:Okay, to be a little selfish in the first house when your
Unknown:first house is about you.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I like the sort of practical application. I feel like Kyle and I can get a little abstract sometimes so it's nice having Shay here yeah.
Kyle Pierce:All right, well, before we that I out pee real quick. And then we can continue. I don't want to like
Tristan Paylor:you're gonna support terrorists,
Kyle Pierce:I think supporting my first house,
Unknown:maybe engaging in self care. Have a theory.
Kyle Pierce:And I don't think I'm the only one that thinks about this. But, you know, the second house is the house. It's what supports the the first, it's what you know, where we get the meaning
Unknown:Okay, bye.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, we have located poop in the houses. So we're gonna make sure we talk about the tall Paris that we cover that tall circle back to this. Yeah, very important. Key key word for the
Shay:Oh, gosh.
Tristan Paylor:I'm sorry. No, yes.
Shay:Yes, the sun in the house of poop. Thank you.
Tristan Paylor:I have Venus in the house of poop, which is not sound great. All
Kyle Pierce:right, so the second house,
Tristan Paylor:second house, the house that supports the first house.
Kyle Pierce:Yes. And that's a good starting point, just what supports the first house?
Tristan Paylor:Well, we've got resources, like actual material resources. The traditional name for the second house was the gate of Hades,
Kyle Pierce:a lot about their attitude towards material life.
Tristan Paylor:A Wellfleet Welcome to hell. Well, there's also, I mean, on a more positive note, and understanding that, especially you know, if you live in a very agricultural society, which I
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, and like, you know, first person is like you and your physical body, like, what do you stand on? What supports you existing is the earth that you're standing on? It the you're not
Tristan Paylor:As being you know, what supports you when you think of like, the first house is kind of like a newborn baby. You know, another reason why the full is a great card for the first house.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I think the second house points to a different component of family than maybe the fourth house. And it is yeah, like you were saying, like the maybe the more physical, tangible
Tristan Paylor:we all talk at once?
Shay:Well, I'm thinking as you're older, what supports you would be your livelihood and your maybe money, finances your material things differently? How you can you know, support your family with
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, how you manage them?
Kyle Pierce:The second house is a very Pentacles the kind of house
Unknown:yeah, for cards associated, I just wrote suit of Pentacles. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:When I think it Yeah. One of the ways of organizing the houses that is not don't think it's exclusive to like the modern 12 letter alphabet, but is actually kind of organizing them into
Tristan Paylor:we you get the triplicity is with the angles were the first the 12th. And the second would actually be airy. And then the houses around the world are earthy, the houses around the
Tristan Paylor:triplicity. Is Is there known traditionally, the houses,
Shay:that's really good to know.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, but um, like the livelihood shake, because that is a big component of the second house mean, everything that you're talking about, especially in modern society, it all points to
Tristan Paylor:have been finding over and over again, that the second house lines up more with what somebody actually does for a career than the 10th house, which is, usually we think when we want to
Shay:Yeah, take that into account to
Kyle Pierce:definitely always look at the second house for for career, among other things, I think it's maybe a good interpretive principle to, I like to think of the houses and like their base
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, that's a good starting place.
Unknown:And there's there's not a planet that has its joy the second house, right?
Tristan Paylor:No, no one always is in the underworld. Yeah.
Unknown:Other than Hades, Hades?
Kyle Pierce:Well, I think yeah. The second and eighth houses like aren't really there to kind of neglected in that scheme. And then basically all the angular houses the first except for the first
Tristan Paylor:The planets are lazy. They don't want to For houses because there's too much to do there.
Unknown:Since there's not a planet card association for the second house, just looking at my own personal ruler of the second house, so my second house is in Sagittarius, which is ruled by Jupiter.
Unknown:didn't stick with any one thing for very long. So that feels very Wheel of Fortune 82 is kind of turning on to the next thing, kind of how my relationship with money was kind of consistent, but it
Tristan Paylor:I like that What do
Unknown:you guys have? What do you have in your house ruling your second house,
Tristan Paylor:we both have the sun but in depth signs of houses. So I have five very solar sun. I have the sun in Aries in the 10th house ruling my second house, which actually fits what I'm doing
Tristan Paylor:worked for God got my money from, you know, teaching Sunday school and doing youth ministry and that kind of stuff. So I was you know, teaching people about religious stories and you know, helping
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. That fits really well with yours. I feel like my maybe second house significations showed up have showed up in different ways. Yeah, I guess throughout my life so far.
Kyle Pierce:nice things. I like soft clothes, right? I like comfortable things. I like tasty. I like to spend money on snacks and things. But I also am a little more you know, I'm not quite as luxurious. Maybe
Tristan Paylor:Mars is. Yeah, Mars is a brace of Mars is like that. My splinters stuck in your your company sock?
Kyle Pierce:Oh yeah, I do. I mean, I lose my things often to Mars seems to like to make those missing.
Tristan Paylor:But yeah, yeah, I've got I got both both malefics on top of my second house ruler as well. And money has not been like an easy thing for me I definitely am, like, I'm recognizing my
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Yeah, Saturn is like, their scarcity mindset? Or is there you know, a hard time seeing possibility or opportunity or seizing opportunity?
Unknown:And some some thoughts to or questions that you could use your cards to ask when related to the second house could be I think one of these you said what is my relationship with money? Also,
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, like? So great. Yeah. And
Unknown:apart from just the suit of Pentacles. I was also thinking that temperance would be a good card associated with this just because, you know, as far as you know, how, how you relate to money,
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, yeah. You see the maybe the material consequences of your activities in the second house? Yeah. Pretty Pretty tangibly.
Tristan Paylor:I like justice, too, because I think, you know, we, when we talk about the second house, you know, we also have to talk about this sort of, like, context for money in our society,
Kyle Pierce:I've totally seen that show up in in charts of like, people who write about money money writers use that with eighth and second house a lot. But the second house just carries that topic of
Unknown:Yeah, just kind of add in some second house activities. So I was thinking, budgeting, maybe like analyzing your spending, but also possibly organizing your possessions. Organizing your office,
Kyle Pierce:Sometimes I wish that mercury is a little more under the beans of my son because at least then it would help put my shit in order.
Shay:Get your house in order. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:I do want to say one more thing about the second house
Tristan Paylor:cut off, no more, we have already voted.
Kyle Pierce:The second house along with the sixth, the eighth and the 12th house, is one of the houses that does not make a traditional Ptolemaic aspect with the first house, which is part of what
Tristan Paylor:And it makes, it doesn't aspect the first house, but it makes the 10th makes the superior trying to the second. So the 10th is kind of like bringing some of the second house topics
Kyle Pierce:Let's do it. I love to help us. Yeah. Really, the main think source of meaning for the 12th house is the fact that it is the sign or however you calculate that house, it's the one that is
Kyle Pierce:rejoices. Saturn tends to, to humble things and make them not so ostentatious. Right. And so I it's one of my favorite qualities of the 12th house. Is that it you know, 12th house is not
Shay:it's not a fun place.
Kyle Pierce:It's not a peacock. It's not necessarily a fun place. But it's it's not a Yeah, it's not a peacock fighting. It's flaunting its feathers. It's it's maybe been shoved out. It's like
Kyle Pierce:Who took over Conan O'Brien show? I was like,
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I can't help you with
Kyle Pierce:this one for I know him his face, I can see his face. Whatever part of my brain that categorizes in the names of things lives in the 12th house. Away from me. Maybe Venus?
Tristan Paylor:It's your blind spot. Definitely. Yeah, I think it really shows you the the relationship of houses in Angular triads really beautifully that the first house is the house
Shay:Yeah, it is. And it's love the World Cups. Yeah, it's, it's something that it was interesting to see because Saturn is the planet that has its joy in the 12th house and Saturn and is associated
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it's like the end of the Fool's Journey.
Kyle Pierce:But it is there's an end and beginning to it to Yeah, it's like
Shay:the accumulation of all the lessons that you've learned along the way. And then you're, you're headed to the next the next cycle.
Tristan Paylor:And it can be like, I sometimes think of the 12th house is being kind of like a waiting room. The cadent houses is like purgatory. Totally. One of the the qualities of, or I guess,
Tristan Paylor:that's the self undoing part, right. And also making irresponsible decisions that lead to, like, actually just putting things in your life on hold. It'd be one of the dark sides of the 12th house.
Tristan Paylor:be patient? Those kinds of things are, like positive experiences that can come from being in 12th places is having to learn patience and learn inner peace
Kyle Pierce:and let go of the outcome. Yeah, exactly.
Kyle Pierce:It's like, that's a big 12th House lesson. Yeah, actually, I'm really like, it's picking them up the World card. And I really liked that because while you know the world in tarot, it signifies that
Kyle Pierce:and Aquarius is the water barrel mayor and the spilling of the water of the womb, you know, the natal waters the final waters, I guess. Like yeah, you know, that makes sense. It's, I mean, it's a
Unknown:yeah. I'm also thinking about the significations of that 12th house being like seclusion isolation. So, before you're born, you're secluded in this place. And then, you know, you're
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it's dark.
Kyle Pierce:It's a little, I guess, in theory, cozier in there, but who knows? I but there's a death symbolism with the 12th house. And it's the you know, that kind of ending point. And what do
Tristan Paylor:into you go alone? Yeah. Are you the only one who's directly experiencing your dad yells, can you speak directly experience it with you?
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where you can get maybe some of the modern approaches to the 12th house. And in your unconscious mind, in a sense, it's very much like the internal
Tristan Paylor:I think there is a traditional basis for associating the 12th house with sleep and dreams, because of its association with the time before birth, where, you know, like, the sleep is
Tristan Paylor:not you're not really there. Other than in your dreams.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, one of my favorite 12th House delineations actually comes from Vedic Astrologer is Victor Kara's translation of called Deepika. And it's the 12th house is like the translated into
Tristan Paylor:But you also can't be in the angular houses all the time. That's really kind of see that difference between Angular and cadent, where, you know, the 12th House asleep and lying down
Kyle Pierce:You need to do your 12 house every day really sounds like I need to do my 12th house personally, and even when I'm awake, be alone, isolate any places alone, away from a little bit.
Tristan Paylor:Now there's no purpose behind your activity,
Kyle Pierce:per se, in a sense, it's a little bit like the opposite of the second house. It's not actually opposite, but it's sort of a reverse, in the sense that if you think of the second house
Unknown:and has the Reese kind of which seems almost like better yeah, ring.
Tristan Paylor:I never thought of that.
Kyle Pierce:Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. There's like a joyful, almost acceptance of fate, if you will, of the things that are outside your control. You can get a lot of great spiritual
Unknown:Yeah, it feels more feels more accepting than the Wheel of Fortune, which is just sort of like you're stuck learning and Bing Bing turned along the wheel, whereas, yeah, whereas the world
Tristan Paylor:on how it goes. Yeah, I like that a lot.
Unknown:And I'm also thinking about other cards that could be associated with the 12th house and that idea of taking some time out, you know, maybe the hermit because of the, the, you know, the
Tristan Paylor:I like the four of swords for the 12th house. I feel like that that visually, and I've never really connected it before. But visually, that's like exactly how I picture the 12th
Kyle Pierce:it? Yeah, and the fourth, because there is like a somberness to the four of swords, too. But it's sort of like that recuperation recovery after. If something you know, like the three
Shay:swords, the three of swords comes right, but
Kyle Pierce:you're like recovering from the pain, you're accepting the loss, you're accepting that the thing that happened that you can't change the outcome of any more. That's 12.
Tristan Paylor:This is giving me a lot of insight into my Venus in the 12th house. Like what what you were saying, Kyle about the figure on the World card, having that sort of posture and expression
Tristan Paylor:like, monastic folks, I think really fit into the 12th house where it's very Saturday, like it's very disciplined and structured, it's also very isolated. And it's, it's a very extreme way to live.
Unknown:well, and I have I have Venus as a ruler of my 12th house because my 12th house is Libra. So you know, Venus being associated with with beauty and harmony, and the tarot card that goes with
Kyle Pierce:I'm trying to remember now, which classic delineation of this. This was of, I'm pretty sure it's Venus in the 12th. House. She was the he shall be father to other men's children.
Kyle Pierce:like, it's not about you, you're proud of them. I think that there's something about that with the 12th house, it's we're being actually has some, like nice overlap, brings out some positivity in the
Tristan Paylor:The self, the self undoing can also be, you know, service, which I think that we'll talk about this with the sixth house too, because that access of the sixth and the 12th both have a
Tristan Paylor:you know, not sort of being applauded or rewarded for the work that I'm doing?
Unknown:Yeah. Yeah, I think those are great questions. I'm also thinking about maybe considering maybe what your blind spots might be as a question to ask yourself about the 12th house, you know,
Tristan Paylor:That's, that's sometimes a nice thing about the tool. Ferriss is alone time. And if you really resonate with the 12 hours, I feel like a lot of 12 OC people are like, I really like my
Kyle Pierce:People looking at you,
Tristan Paylor:people, yeah, phenology if you don't, no one's looking at you in the 12th house. Yeah. So that's probably kind of a relief. You have to look at, yeah, you do have to look into your
Kyle Pierce:That can be the best and worst part of the 12th house. Maybe we should probably be fair, and talk about like, you know, at least give do justice to the more negative significations of
Tristan Paylor:What's your hidden enemies too? Right? That's yeah, the traditional significations is that the enemies that you don't see, are in the 12th. House. Yeah. So watch out. Let's get in
Kyle Pierce:On the side, sometimes I wonder if benefics in the 12th house sometimes seem to show up as like, I don't know, like you're not doing anything or like purposefully abstaining from from
Shay:Like having to take the fall for we're
Kyle Pierce:letting other people because we think about like the results of lying down. If you have like a nice planet, they're got, you know, sometimes that can show up. It's like, not having to do
Unknown:Gotcha. So sitting back, and then things working out, even though you didn't put in the work yourself. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce:I mean, I've seen that as being 12. I've seen that in my own life and my own chart, my own 12 House placements, and with the 12, house placements, people I know, it's like, I don't need
Unknown:Yeah. And thinking about negative cards associated with it. The devil maybe with its association to addiction or to maybe causing your own or other people suffering.
Kyle Pierce:Totally, that addictions can really show up in the 12th house,
Tristan Paylor:on the bondage and the devil card too. Because the 12th house is about restricting circumstances and bondage and a lack of freedom
Kyle Pierce:situation is that you're stuck in toxic situations.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah,
Unknown:yeah. Or Eight of Swords is yeah, the imprisonment kind of card where she's surrounded by swords. And she's tied up. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor:she's got like, a cloth around the eyes, too, right?
Unknown:Yeah, she can't see. And her Her hands are bound. And she's not completely surrounded by swords. They're just on one side so she can get out. But yeah, see that she can get out? Oh, that's
Kyle Pierce:that is very, um, because it's kind of swords. It's airy. It's an airy part of the sky. It's also an unknowing place for the sun to be in the morning. Like, oh, my god, your visor to block
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, that's sometimes be. Yeah, the 12th house can sometimes be, you know, being blinded by excess light. I think that was actually one of one old way of looking at the 12th house,
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Yeah, one Yeah, as we talked about, with the planets episode, I believe we were talking about maybe the sun, and Saturn and those sorts of weird overlap, in the sense that the sun
Tristan Paylor:house. But there's like a bit of self undoing. I guess, when you become too wrapped up in it all you become like a public figure. And so you know, your life. And everything you do is
Kyle Pierce:I love that. This is like, why, why I keep Tristan around. Tristan, is that sense? He'll put things so perfectly and like there's no way I could have put it out that well. Exactly.
Tristan Paylor:You just discarded? She was also you know, discarding is definitely a 12th house theme. And some of the some of the mundane I see Shay laughing because you're probably thinking
Kyle Pierce:So first place I look when I want to know what somebody's relationship with poop. How are your bowel movements? Look? It's Look at your tweet well,
Tristan Paylor:and also it fits with the theme of service a little bit too. Like who's willing to unplug the toilet when it clogs? That's it's well past John, you know? Yeah, some somebody is in the
Kyle Pierce:for sure. Yeah, it's Saturn, you know, dirty. I believe that. Was it Venus, one of the other ones, the balance, delineation for Venus in the 12th houses, is that he should live with
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I mean, that was one of the early significations for the 12th house was slaves, which is like, pretty upsetting. You know, that's not definitely not a pleasant thing to
Kyle Pierce:Absolutely. Why? Maybe you just want to add, we want to go on a big deep dive on 12,000 slavery, but um, the movie 20 years of slave, one of the things I think it did a really good job of
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I'm not gonna I don't feel too bad for that. That's not what I'm saying.
Kyle Pierce:I'm not saying feel bad for belief holders, but it wasn't good for them, either. Because it brought them into a toxic cycle. And if they had like, even a sliver of humanity, they
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I'm just realizing that we are at 723. Now, and I really, I'm so sorry,
Unknown:there were just two more things that I wanted to add for the 12th house. So spread positions that might be associated with the 12th house and reading. So maybe the challenges for the
Tristan Paylor:Hmm. I like that.
Kyle Pierce:One of the things that maybe, um, I like to look at what the 12th house is, because there is a relationship traditionally with foreign lands in foreign countries. Is that sense of
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, yeah, that's an important one, too. You know, the the ninth house is like positive travel and the 12th house is like, I want to doesn't travel where your fight Yeah, you're
Unknown:Well, that can be an isolating feeling as well, like not being able to communicate with the people around you or feeling part of the group,
Kyle Pierce:not speaking the language. Yeah. Well, with that, do we want to wrap it up with that first triad, and continue on with the other three on our next episode?
Tristan Paylor:Let's do it. Well,
Kyle Pierce:Shane, what do you what do you have going on these days?
Unknown:Well, you can find me on Instagram at lightning wildflower, and I offer tarot readings over zoom. So you want more information on how to book that with me, you can just contact me And yeah,
Tristan Paylor:Okay. I was just gonna say I highly recommend having your tarot cards read by Shay.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, well, what do you have going on Tristan,
Tristan Paylor:you can also find me on Instagram, as well as Twitter and Tumblr, at that sign astrology. You can visit my website at bad sign astrology.ca and book a reading with me there. And I
Kyle Pierce:the huge this podcast and my website where you can book a reading with me at Kyle Pierce astrology.com. And I think that's it for the most part. But I think there's a couple things I
Unknown:Yeah, only if you love it. If you don't love it, just I
Kyle Pierce:mean if you don't love it, you can still do it and just be be helpful like that. But also, yeah, if you listen on Apple, you know, Apple podcasts, you can rate us there really helps.
Tristan Paylor:That's it for me? Yeah, please ask us questions. We need your questions,
Kyle Pierce:questions. We're hungry. Yeah, thank you all for listening. And we will see you next time.
Kyle Pierce:You have a question you would like to hear answered on astrology hotline. You can send us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com
