Why include Pluto in astrology? And career disatisfaction in a birth chart. - Astrology Hotline

Episode 10

Why Pluto?

Published on: 22nd November, 2021

It's difficult to undertake even a casual study of astrology with out becoming very familiar with Pluto and its significations of intensity, creative destruction, and transformation. But it's easy forget that Pluto as a celestial body was discovered less than 100 years ago, which for some understandably raises questions about the validity of using it in astrology. During the first part of the episode we address the question, Why use Pluto in astrology? During the second part, we interpret a birth chart to see what it has to say about the native's currently unfulfilling career path.

Jessica's Birth Chart

Kyle Pierce - Consultations, Killer Cosmos, Instagram

https://kylepierceastrology.com

Tristan Paylor- Instagram, Consultations

https://badsignastrology.ca

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Transcript
Tristan Paylor:

Hello and welcome to astrology hotline.

Tristan Paylor:

podcast where we answer your questions about your birth

Tristan Paylor:

charts about everything you want to know about astrology. I

Tristan Paylor:

answer your burning questions. I'll have your back. Exactly. I

Tristan Paylor:

am I'm Tristan and hosting with me is Kyle Pierce. Hello. How

Tristan Paylor:

are you doing today?

Kyle Pierce:

I'm doing really, really wonderful. I am loving

Kyle Pierce:

every minute of Mars in Scorpio, even the their mind i i love all

Kyle Pierce:

of it. I literally love all of it. Please don't hurt

Tristan Paylor:

me. Mars, please. Yeah, nothing. Nothing

Tristan Paylor:

bad to say

Unknown:

at all. Nothing bad to say I love Mars.

Tristan Paylor:

Friend through my fifth house where my

Tristan Paylor:

ascendant ruler is.

Kyle Pierce:

I'm pretty sure I'm actually I think I'm gonna

Kyle Pierce:

rewrite astrology because I'm convinced that Mars is a

Kyle Pierce:

benefic. Always just delivering the goods in the sweetness.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, if the goods are in the form of like,

Tristan Paylor:

mild mania, then I've got that. Yeah, I've got that in spades.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Yeah, the mania. I like it. Thanks, Mars.

Kyle Pierce:

Can't wait for that opposition with Uranus. Anyway, how are you

Kyle Pierce:

interested?

Tristan Paylor:

I am in the same boat as you are really just

Tristan Paylor:

experiencing you know, the only to Mars emotions which are over

Tristan Paylor:

enthusiastic happiness and rage. There's just those two.

Kyle Pierce:

I'm thinking of this series of books that I

Kyle Pierce:

read. Man's gonna kill me what they're called now. Sure what

Kyle Pierce:

now on Netflix. It's not like, Anglo Saxon was like raised by

Kyle Pierce:

Vikings. But the books are all just like about this dude

Kyle Pierce:

fighting all the time. And he's always talking about battle joy.

Kyle Pierce:

Like, oh, yeah, once I like, stab the first dude, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

get under a shield. And I just, you know, stab him in the balls

Kyle Pierce:

or something. And I'm, oh, yeah. Now the battle goes on. And then

Kyle Pierce:

it's and then then it's madness. And he just slaughters everyone.

Kyle Pierce:

And that's like his favorite thing. And I think that's what

Kyle Pierce:

that is the joy of Mars. That's just the joy of Mars. Yeah, that

Kyle Pierce:

is a kind of joy. And you know, you don't necessarily have to

Kyle Pierce:

stab someone to get it. You can have that battle joy when you're

Kyle Pierce:

cleaning. I find. Yeah, when you're in the right

Tristan Paylor:

rager mode. You're on a mission? Yeah, gotta

Tristan Paylor:

be in the heat of the moment on a mission. And then you get that

Tristan Paylor:

frenzy. Oh, yeah. For some reason, you know, despite being

Tristan Paylor:

a total softie, one of my patron deities is Odin. And his name

Tristan Paylor:

like the root of his name, actually means like ecstasy or

Tristan Paylor:

frenzy or madness. Oh, yeah. Which, you know, can refer to

Tristan Paylor:

like, Odin is really connected to the arts and to poetry and

Tristan Paylor:

inspiration. But also, you know, he's a warrior God and the

Tristan Paylor:

frenzied emotions of battle are also his. So that sort of

Tristan Paylor:

ecstasy could refer to artistic inspiration, or it could refer

Tristan Paylor:

to, you know, going absolutely berserk on the battlefield. But

Tristan Paylor:

it's interesting that like, it is the kind of ecstasy and I

Tristan Paylor:

think that is, when Mars feels good. It's that sort of ecstasy

Tristan Paylor:

that takes you outside of yourself. Because you're just

Tristan Paylor:

doing something so intensely. Yeah. And potentially dangerous.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. I think it's the unrestricted like intensity

Kyle Pierce:

of Mars that that's where you get actually it's like, what

Kyle Pierce:

when I hear the word exultation, I think of like, I have like,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, I have Mars in Aquarius square and a bunch of

Kyle Pierce:

Taurus planets. So, you know, obviously, I, I have a very

Kyle Pierce:

specific type of metal that I like that only comes from

Kyle Pierce:

Finland, and to you know, it's very refined Torian specificity,

Kyle Pierce:

or Aquarius, you know, nobody else can like it, but me, but it

Kyle Pierce:

gets you in this particular mode, where I just think of the

Kyle Pierce:

word exaltation, and it's like that it's the Mars. I don't have

Kyle Pierce:

an exalted Mars but feels exalted when when you get that

Kyle Pierce:

right, you get that double bass drum going, and some fucking

Kyle Pierce:

killer classically inspired riffs. Anyway,

Tristan Paylor:

happy Mars in Scorpio,

Kyle Pierce:

every one ever. Yeah, happy. Everyone. I think

Kyle Pierce:

we have a show to do today are

Tristan Paylor:

sort of on on the subject of Mars. We have a

Tristan Paylor:

question that has to do with Pluto, who has stolen a bunch of

Tristan Paylor:

Mars is significations really, Pluto's become, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

interpreted as the higher octave of Mars? Like Mars dialed up to

Tristan Paylor:

11 As if you need to dial Mars up anymore? Apparently we're

Tristan Paylor:

like no, the Mars setting in Australia. You didn't go high

Tristan Paylor:

enough? Yeah. So we're going to crank it up a little bit more.

Tristan Paylor:

And we're going to introduce Pluto.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, or you know, I mean, that's Pluto is like

Kyle Pierce:

it's either all the way up to 11 or 20. Or like negative five.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, it's

Tristan Paylor:

just it's not there. Like, where'd Pluto go?

Tristan Paylor:

All or nothing? So, our first listener question today comes

Tristan Paylor:

from Haley. And they want to know, why Pluto, why use Pluto

Tristan Paylor:

and astrology at all? Why? You know, it's, it's astronomically

Tristan Paylor:

speaking no longer a planet. You know, it's, it's a little dwarf

Tristan Paylor:

planet. It was only very, very recently discovered, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

it's not part of the long and enduring tradition of astrology

Tristan Paylor:

It was discovered in 1930. So it's, you know, less less than

Tristan Paylor:

100 years, it's been in the astrology game. So why use it,

Tristan Paylor:

Kyle? Yeah. What is Pluto? What does Pluto have to give to the

Tristan Paylor:

tradition of astrology?

Kyle Pierce:

Well, first of all, I do have answers, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

because I'm an expert, right? But I, I eat Pluto for

Kyle Pierce:

breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. But I wanted to share

Kyle Pierce:

in that questioning state for a second because seriously, why?

Kyle Pierce:

Because, you know, you have planets, like Pluto that were

Kyle Pierce:

discovered before Pluto. But Pluto as we you know, we did

Kyle Pierce:

discuss this in the the asteroids episode, that series

Kyle Pierce:

was discovered, and was considered a planet long before

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto. In yet, once we found Pluto, we just sunk their teeth

Kyle Pierce:

into it and just incorporate it into astrology immediately. It's

Kyle Pierce:

a very good question. And I am excited to dive into it.

Tristan Paylor:

I think maybe one of the things that Pluto had

Tristan Paylor:

the something that was advantageous to Pluto in terms

Tristan Paylor:

of being very quickly incorporated into astrology. And

Tristan Paylor:

in a really enduring way is just the timing of its discovery.

Tristan Paylor:

Because in 1930, was the time that sun sign astrology was born

Tristan Paylor:

as well like the 1930s, not the year 1930 specifically, but it

Tristan Paylor:

was in the 1930s that sun sign horoscopes started appearing in

Tristan Paylor:

English newspapers. And you know, astrology had been through

Tristan Paylor:

a bit of a low point through the 18th 19th centuries, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

this. And then, in the early 1900s, you had Alan Leo, who,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, started popularizing astrology a little bit more and

Tristan Paylor:

kind of rethinking astrology for a new era and making it a little

Tristan Paylor:

bit more accessible. Because at the time that he was working in

Tristan Paylor:

the early 1900s, fortunetelling was illegal in in Britain. So he

Tristan Paylor:

kind of adapted it, you know, where astrology wasn't just

Tristan Paylor:

about fortune telling, and made it so that, you know, there was

Tristan Paylor:

sort of a way like it was kind of a loophole, there was there

Tristan Paylor:

was a way of getting around it by making astrology. More about

Tristan Paylor:

these sort of like esoteric or metaphysical subjects and less

Tristan Paylor:

about, you know, trying to deterministically decide what

Tristan Paylor:

was gonna happen in someone's future. And then, in the 1930s,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, you had the rise of astrologers, like Evangelium

Tristan Paylor:

Adams, who really popularized astrology and like magazines and

Tristan Paylor:

newspapers and in pop culture again, so it was kind of like a

Tristan Paylor:

ripe time for Pluto to come on the scene. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

I find when it comes to timing, I'm glad you

Kyle Pierce:

brought up timing because the world was in a very interesting

Kyle Pierce:

place at that time. And I kind of want to read just a little

Kyle Pierce:

excerpt from the first kind of major publication about Pluto.

Kyle Pierce:

From Fritz, Fritz Brunhilde Huebner Fritz,

Tristan Paylor:

I'm gonna struggle to pronounce his name.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. I really Huebner is pretty, pretty cool

Kyle Pierce:

name. But um, this is he wrote in 1930. Literally, was it 1929

Kyle Pierce:

And I think 30. But Pluto was discovered. So

Tristan Paylor:

this, I think it was discovered in 1930. Although

Tristan Paylor:

I don't know, it's entirely clear, because I think like the

Tristan Paylor:

announcement was postponed because somebody's involved in

Tristan Paylor:

the discovery and a birthday or something. I don't know. I don't

Tristan Paylor:

remember the whole story, but I think Fritz Brian Hubner

Tristan Paylor:

published his book on Pluto in 1934. So as a few years after

Tristan Paylor:

this one is like 1933 or 1934. Alright,

Kyle Pierce:

so the excerpt that I want to read comes from Pluto,

Kyle Pierce:

new home. Rising for a Lost Horizon, astronomy, astrology

Kyle Pierce:

and mythology, which is a collection of different essays

Kyle Pierce:

from different astrologers different times about Pluto and

Kyle Pierce:

its significations. And, at least in this book it says that

Kyle Pierce:

this excerpt from Fritz Brune Huebner is a reprint of material

Kyle Pierce:

from 1930. It's kind of just an example of the early take on

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto, which I guess you know whether it was like a 30 year or

Kyle Pierce:

later, I guess I just find it interesting that like right out

Kyle Pierce:

of the gate, astrologers we're trying to put Pluto into an

Kyle Pierce:

astrological context. And for its rune Huebner wrote Pluto is

Kyle Pierce:

connection transition passage, bridge boundary, the end and at

Kyle Pierce:

the same time, the beginning it unbinds and binds it brings

Kyle Pierce:

revolutionary upheavals. It is the turning point, Pluto leads

Kyle Pierce:

from torpidity to revival, from one condition of consciousness

Kyle Pierce:

into another, from one being and to another being from this life

Kyle Pierce:

into the life hereafter. For this reason, Pluto has been

Kyle Pierce:

called in mythology, the Lord of the realm of the dead, the realm

Kyle Pierce:

between the astral world, Pluto is the overthrow of the old

Kyle Pierce:

sensing the new, the end of the old world and the ascent of a

Kyle Pierce:

new spiritual epoch. It is therefore not and your chance to

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto was discovered on the borderline of two ages the

Kyle Pierce:

turning point of human evolution if Uranus is the first stage of

Kyle Pierce:

the coming Aquarian Age than Pluto is the second stage, Pluto

Kyle Pierce:

leads out of death rigidity, a cramped state through the stage

Kyle Pierce:

of fermentation, preparation and development to revival,

Kyle Pierce:

enlightenment, elevation, and clarification. Pluto will lead

Kyle Pierce:

humanity out of the mechanization and mechanical

Kyle Pierce:

technology of our times into an epoch of provocation,

Kyle Pierce:

resurrection of magic and creative power. So I find this

Kyle Pierce:

excerpt interesting. And it becomes pretty clear reading it

Kyle Pierce:

that mean he's pulling all of this from the mythology behind

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto. But when you consider the time period, around 1930, and

Kyle Pierce:

building up to that 1920s, even, we're really talking about the

Kyle Pierce:

post World War One world, the interwar period between World

Kyle Pierce:

War One and World War Two. And this was really a period where

Kyle Pierce:

collectively is like humans, we're kind of recovering from

Kyle Pierce:

this huge trauma that World War One represented, it was the

Kyle Pierce:

first really encounter with modern warfare, mechanized

Kyle Pierce:

warfare, in personal warfare where, you know, people were

Kyle Pierce:

living in trenches. And it was like a truly mechanical

Kyle Pierce:

experience of just, you know, it wasn't about strategy or about,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, one person winning out over the other one or anything

Kyle Pierce:

that was just who could pump the most human bodies into a space

Kyle Pierce:

with the most firepower at the right time. And it was an

Kyle Pierce:

extremely dehumanizing experience for people. I mean,

Kyle Pierce:

really, it was pretty messed up. And people were really kind of

Kyle Pierce:

losing faith in not only like government institutions, and

Kyle Pierce:

kind of the sort of values that like patriotism that people use

Kyle Pierce:

sort of cling to, when fighting wars and joining up the

Kyle Pierce:

military, but really, it was kind of the first experience of

Kyle Pierce:

like, how apocalyptic technology can be, like the the realization

Kyle Pierce:

that you know, we have the ability to destroy ourselves and

Kyle Pierce:

each other on a scale like never before. And, you know, you have

Kyle Pierce:

Uranus he's kind of referencing how Uranus its whole idea of an

Kyle Pierce:

Aquarian Age and we had kind of like a fetishizing of technology

Kyle Pierce:

for some time before World War One, and kind of post World War

Kyle Pierce:

One. A lot of people were like, I don't know if I like this, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, the JRR Tolkien Yep. That those ideas are all throughout

Kyle Pierce:

Lord of the Rings of like mechanized impersonal beings

Kyle Pierce:

like the the orcs, you know, it's kind of a representation of

Kyle Pierce:

like the dehumanizing quality of industrial society. And you

Kyle Pierce:

know, then you have like the elves and like the simple

Kyle Pierce:

habits, you know, the country folk who are the good peer

Kyle Pierce:

people, they're fighting against this industrial oppression. And

Kyle Pierce:

you kind of see how like,

Kyle Pierce:

this guy rune Huber really jumps on, you know, oh, now we have

Kyle Pierce:

the symbol of this way that we feel about maybe the the

Kyle Pierce:

revolution of Uranus and now like, oh, Pluto is here to

Kyle Pierce:

liberate us from the evil evil technology that is really

Kyle Pierce:

enslaving people or humanizing people. And I think that you do

Kyle Pierce:

get a lot of the significations of blue Don't really been pulled

Kyle Pierce:

out of that idea out of this experience that was very new for

Kyle Pierce:

people around this time. That was one.

Tristan Paylor:

No, that was incredible. I yeah, that you

Tristan Paylor:

completely nailed it, I think and I'm sold on Pluto now

Tristan Paylor:

because of you. Well, this

Kyle Pierce:

isn't like pre nuclear to.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it was. So yeah, in 1942, nuclear fusion

Tristan Paylor:

was achieved. So Pluto kind of heralded this new and that's,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, something that, you know, folks listening who are

Tristan Paylor:

already quite familiar with astrology, we'll probably be

Tristan Paylor:

familiar with that, because astrologers do bring it up a

Tristan Paylor:

lot. And it is one of the ways that we derive meaning for the

Tristan Paylor:

newly discovered celestial bodies is by looking at well,

Tristan Paylor:

what was going on in history at the time of their discovery, and

Tristan Paylor:

what was going on in history shortly after they were

Tristan Paylor:

discovered, like that discovery sort of Herald, a new era for

Tristan Paylor:

humanity. And in the case of Pluto, you know, nuclear power

Tristan Paylor:

was developed shortly after, yeah, Pluto's discovery. So that

Tristan Paylor:

was kind of one of the big new things that we were grappling

Tristan Paylor:

with, that Pluto became symbolic of. And also, I think that's

Tristan Paylor:

where you get some of Pluto's symbolism of representing very

Tristan Paylor:

tiny things because of the the atomics and yeah, the unseen,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, it's not only the underworld, but also things that

Tristan Paylor:

are very, very, very miniscule

Kyle Pierce:

one in Yeah, and I guess, you know, keeping it to

Kyle Pierce:

the question of like, why, like, these are like, really intense

Kyle Pierce:

feelings, I think, for people, like, you know, we're all kind

Kyle Pierce:

of used to like consumerism, and how dehumanizing it can be to be

Kyle Pierce:

sort of reduced to the label of consumer, we're kind of used to

Kyle Pierce:

finding ourselves in our identity in that context. But

Kyle Pierce:

like that sort of industrial language, which people have been

Kyle Pierce:

struggling with for a long time, I think during the Industrial

Kyle Pierce:

Revolution, but seeing how nasty it could get, there is like a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of language about in Saudi strategic like that

Kyle Pierce:

transformation, you know, or transmutation. In even now,

Kyle Pierce:

still, it's kind of idea of why he would have used it at the

Kyle Pierce:

time like mutation, like, you know, this idea of evolving into

Kyle Pierce:

like a super person, sort of transcend, that like the

Kyle Pierce:

shackles of really sort of distorted power mechanisms that

Kyle Pierce:

industrialization facilitated, and it gets kind of hard, and

Kyle Pierce:

you can see how it's like sort of early that like, there's a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of Uranus language, like revolution. But maybe it's like,

Kyle Pierce:

sort of like a disenchantment with with Uranus, almost at the

Kyle Pierce:

time.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, just thinking about in terms of why

Tristan Paylor:

use the newly discovered planets, I think, you know, what

Tristan Paylor:

you've been talking about, is a really good case where, for

Tristan Paylor:

1000s of years, we couldn't see any planets past Saturn. And

Tristan Paylor:

then scientific technology advanced to the point where we

Tristan Paylor:

were no longer limited by our senses. And Uranus, Neptune and

Tristan Paylor:

Pluto, I think all share some similar significations because

Tristan Paylor:

they all represent that experience of, for the first

Tristan Paylor:

time in human history, no longer being limited by our senses, and

Tristan Paylor:

being able to perceive a world very much outside of the normal.

Tristan Paylor:

And that is, you know, in my own practice, how I use those

Tristan Paylor:

planets in interpretation is that these are, these are

Tristan Paylor:

supernormal experiences. These are confrontations with things

Tristan Paylor:

that are outside of the usual limits of perception and

Tristan Paylor:

understanding, and the, like, speed of technological

Tristan Paylor:

advancement. We almost can't keep up with it. And I do feel

Tristan Paylor:

fine, you know, planets like Pluto. Yeah, that, you know, in

Tristan Paylor:

our like, stuff like The Matrix, and you know, all of our, like,

Tristan Paylor:

stories that we tell in popular culture about like robot

Tristan Paylor:

apocalypse and stuff like that, where we're sort of, we're

Tristan Paylor:

afraid of our own power, our own technological power, I feel like

Tristan Paylor:

a lot of that experience coincides with the discovery of

Tristan Paylor:

Pluto, and it's being incorporated into natal

Tristan Paylor:

astrology. And that is that is a use for it is sort of capturing

Tristan Paylor:

that feeling and capturing its time like capturing this time

Tristan Paylor:

period, within a chart and how we grapple with those issues

Tristan Paylor:

that are unique to our time in history.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Kenneth Miller made some really good

Kyle Pierce:

point about the outer planets and like, when they were being

Kyle Pierce:

incorporated into astrology, and this whole idea at the time of

Kyle Pierce:

what we refer to as like spiritual Darwinism. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

that's why idea of you know, the outer planets and you know, even

Kyle Pierce:

assigning them science Rule, which really is I mean, maybe

Kyle Pierce:

the the most simple answer to the question is why, why Pluto,

Kyle Pierce:

it's because because Uranus and Neptune, because even though,

Kyle Pierce:

through the debate, they ended up messing up their whole kind

Kyle Pierce:

of reason for it, but they had this idea that like, oh, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, we have these new planets that had been made possible by

Kyle Pierce:

us sort of transcending the traditional limits of human

Kyle Pierce:

capacity, like now we don't need to, we have technology, we've

Kyle Pierce:

evolved beyond our human limits of our eyeballs, and we can see

Kyle Pierce:

things far far out in the space. And we should have these outer

Kyle Pierce:

planets are kind of like an expression of our spiritual

Kyle Pierce:

evolution as well. And by assigning them, you know, they

Kyle Pierce:

had this idea that they would find 12 planets over time and

Kyle Pierce:

assigned them all to each planet would have their own sign,

Kyle Pierce:

right? They never got the 12. But, yeah, and so you get this,

Kyle Pierce:

like, your first this Aquarian Age and I actually don't know

Kyle Pierce:

when the Age of Aquarius idea started. Give me Do you.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, I don't know when it became. I mean,

Tristan Paylor:

we've known about the precession of the equinoxes, which is the

Tristan Paylor:

concept that the Age of Aquarius is based on for a very long

Tristan Paylor:

time. Like for a couple 1000 years, we've known about this.

Tristan Paylor:

But using the precession of the equinoxes to interpret ages of

Tristan Paylor:

the world. I don't know when that concept was first

Tristan Paylor:

introduced. I think the idea of like theater, or even just when

Tristan Paylor:

like the hopefulness, yeah, I think this sort of hopeful

Tristan Paylor:

Aquarian Age concept is very recent. Yeah, I think that's a

Tristan Paylor:

modern concept. But I think the idea of there being ages that

Tristan Paylor:

are based on the precession of the equinoxes is probably an

Tristan Paylor:

older idea. Yeah. That, you know, the Age of Aquarius has

Tristan Paylor:

been interpreted in a very positive light as a result of

Tristan Paylor:

like, the New Age movement and that kind of stuff.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. So I don't know, there's kind of like a,

Kyle Pierce:

because it's taking place over I mean, your answers discovered? I

Kyle Pierce:

don't know when they started giving your NSS Rodricks.

Kyle Pierce:

significations. I think we went over this before it was like

Kyle Pierce:

1850 or something.

Tristan Paylor:

So there's a really, really good article on

Tristan Paylor:

Sky script, which I will include in the show notes. Titled When

Tristan Paylor:

and why did Uranus become associated with Aquarius? Yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

But, you know, it's not only an attempt to answer that question,

Tristan Paylor:

but in attempting to answer that question, the author goes over a

Tristan Paylor:

lot of the earliest instances of astrologers using Uranus in

Tristan Paylor:

astrology and how they incorporated it and how they

Tristan Paylor:

interpreted it symbolism. Yeah. And there's even like a little

Tristan Paylor:

bit of a timeline. But it's interesting is Uranus was

Tristan Paylor:

discovered during kind of a low point in astrology. So it took

Tristan Paylor:

quite a long time, I think, for it to become really solidly

Tristan Paylor:

incorporated in the tradition the way it is nowadays, but

Tristan Paylor:

like, pretty much right away, like in 1791, there was this

Tristan Paylor:

obscure esoteric magazine called conjurers magazine that made a

Tristan Paylor:

connection between Uranus which at the time was called Herschel

Tristan Paylor:

being in Leo and fires. So there's like the signification,

Tristan Paylor:

there were a lot of Uranus is in Leo, there are fires. So there

Tristan Paylor:

people were talking about it and writing about it pretty much

Tristan Paylor:

right away, but I think took a while. Before it became a staple

Tristan Paylor:

of the astrological tradition. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

it's almost like we started giving signs away to

Kyle Pierce:

these new planets, or we have a new one, let's give it to a sign

Kyle Pierce:

like quickly in Aries. That seems like it was kind of in the

Kyle Pierce:

front. I mean, it was Aries Scorpio. That debate went on for

Kyle Pierce:

a long time. And I don't think it was kind of accepted, more

Kyle Pierce:

universally in the astrological community that Pluto rules

Kyle Pierce:

Scorpio until like 1960s or so.

Tristan Paylor:

And I think the 60s was really when the outer

Tristan Paylor:

planets hit their stride. Yeah, that sort of counterculture

Tristan Paylor:

movement, that astrology got swept up in. And I think that's

Tristan Paylor:

when astrology started to become really popular and become a

Tristan Paylor:

phenomenon. We know it to be today, because it went through a

Tristan Paylor:

period between the Renaissance and now it went through sort of

Tristan Paylor:

a low point where it wasn't very popular. And you know, a lot of

Tristan Paylor:

cases even illegal to practice. And then in the 60s, you had

Tristan Paylor:

that counterculture movement, with a lot of alternative

Tristan Paylor:

spirituality becoming a little more mainstream. And that's when

Tristan Paylor:

you know, astrology, modern astrology, I think really became

Tristan Paylor:

what it is today. Yeah, the outer planets were really,

Tristan Paylor:

really central to a lot of that writing in the 60s and 70s.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, and I mean, I don't know intuitively makes a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of sense to me, because I really was like interested in

Kyle Pierce:

the outer planets. Oh, I'm like, first getting into astrology,

Kyle Pierce:

like sort of the kind of the most interesting, or in a lot of

Kyle Pierce:

ways, like the most relevant to not so much personally. But like

Kyle Pierce:

the focuses of our of our time, you know, I don't know, like you

Kyle Pierce:

can kind of get like just listening to the language of a

Kyle Pierce:

balloon Hoover is, you know, you, you can kind of taste the

Kyle Pierce:

sort of Great White hope of Uranus and the new ruler of

Kyle Pierce:

Aquarius and like this transcending power that

Kyle Pierce:

technology brings, you know, like, we can build a whole new

Kyle Pierce:

world with the power of technology. And then just the

Kyle Pierce:

other utter devastation of World War One and post World War One

Kyle Pierce:

were like, you know, people you see on the street, there are

Kyle Pierce:

people who their faces have been blown off or missing limbs. And

Kyle Pierce:

just the kind of utter disenchantment with that

Kyle Pierce:

experience and like not even knowing what to do with it.

Kyle Pierce:

Because it really, people didn't know what to believe in anymore,

Kyle Pierce:

because what had their beliefs gotten them, gotten them, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, the most horrific experience that probably still

Kyle Pierce:

to this day, any mass of people I've ever lived, I would say

Kyle Pierce:

that trench warfare, when you really like get into the grip of

Kyle Pierce:

it is is really like a hellish nightmare. And I think that

Kyle Pierce:

like, part of the reason that we scooped up Pluto, so, so fast

Kyle Pierce:

was like, Okay, here's the thing to project that on. Here's the

Kyle Pierce:

thing that tells us that story. And yeah, we still use it for

Kyle Pierce:

that. It may not be as directly tied to technology as much. But

Kyle Pierce:

I mean, we end up using it for what like, you know, power

Kyle Pierce:

dynamics, corruption, right? The corruption of the abuses of

Kyle Pierce:

power conflict on a mass scale. Yeah. And like, really? Well, I

Kyle Pierce:

don't you know, in practice, when we find that it shows up

Kyle Pierce:

with with Pluto, but we use it to tell the story of like,

Kyle Pierce:

really horrific and traumatic stuff, you know, we saved the

Kyle Pierce:

worst for Pluto, right? Or at least probably from like the

Kyle Pierce:

70s. Up until now, and probably still, to some degree now. I

Kyle Pierce:

don't know, maybe being caught up in like the traditional

Kyle Pierce:

revival, to some degree, sort of, like, lost my perspective on

Kyle Pierce:

a coup doesn't scare me before, I don't know. You don't have

Kyle Pierce:

like, super hard Pluto aspects now.

Tristan Paylor:

Now. But I was. I was I was just thinking about

Tristan Paylor:

when you were reading Fritz's description of Pluto the whole

Tristan Paylor:

time, I was thinking that Saturn for 2000 years that Saturn,

Tristan Paylor:

yeah. And what's interesting, because you know, all those

Tristan Paylor:

words like boundaries and endings and the boundary between

Tristan Paylor:

this world and the afterlife or the other world that was

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn's domain. For you know, the entirety of the Western

Tristan Paylor:

tradition of astrology. And where I think Saturn and Pluto

Tristan Paylor:

are really similar is that they do represent boundaries, at

Tristan Paylor:

least like for you and I, we grew up with Pluto being a

Tristan Paylor:

planet, Pluto was the outermost planet in the solar system. You

Tristan Paylor:

know, I grew up in the 90s. So it had not been demoted yet. I

Tristan Paylor:

was, you know,

Unknown:

you've seen the magic school bus, you know, ya know,

Tristan Paylor:

that. That's what I was taught. And it was at

Tristan Paylor:

the outermost reaches of the solar system. And it is also

Tristan Paylor:

just like, it's tiny and icy. It really like when you, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

you look at like artists renditions of it, it really

Tristan Paylor:

gives you that feeling of like, there is no going past this.

Tristan Paylor:

And, you know, that was the sort of feeling that that Saturn is

Tristan Paylor:

meant to evoke. And I think what ends up happening is that, like,

Tristan Paylor:

with technological advancement, we were able to actually see

Tristan Paylor:

past the boundary that Saturn represented, but our

Tristan Paylor:

technological advancement does not make us Gods, it is also

Tristan Paylor:

limited. And so Pluto kind of represents the limits of the

Tristan Paylor:

advancements we've made. It sort of like the new limit, and the

Tristan Paylor:

new consequences, it carries a little bit of that, that Saturn

Tristan Paylor:

responsibility, you know, where we've advanced to a point where,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, we could wipe out entire countries with the flick

Tristan Paylor:

of a switch. Yeah. And, you know, the, the great world wars

Tristan Paylor:

that happened around the time Plato was discovered, were like,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, this is this is the cost, this is the potential cost

Tristan Paylor:

and what we're capable of doing. Yeah, you know, our greed and

Tristan Paylor:

our, you know, conflict with each other limits our ability to

Tristan Paylor:

use this stuff for the good. And when we try to use it, our own

Tristan Paylor:

the corruption, our own nature, potentially has these

Tristan Paylor:

consequences. Yeah. So it's a Serving, it's serving a similar

Tristan Paylor:

role to Saturn, but sort of like for a new era with with new

Tristan Paylor:

problems that ancient people didn't have to deal with.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, and I mean, that's, that's like where I

Kyle Pierce:

think that I find Pluto actually kind of shows up, granted, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, having traumatic experiences will maybe tune you

Kyle Pierce:

to that sort of, you know, peering down the abyss of human

Kyle Pierce:

nature. But we're also just kind of exposed to those ideas more,

Kyle Pierce:

I think, in general, you know, they're in movies, they're in

Kyle Pierce:

books. You don't have to, like live horror, to, to know, the

Kyle Pierce:

horror that we're capable of. You get like Pluto's extremes,

Kyle Pierce:

right? Like, with great power comes great responsibility, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, you can we can build a utopia or we can create, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, an apocalyptic wasteland and, but that like thinking and

Kyle Pierce:

that sort of peering into the, the void of the chasm of human

Kyle Pierce:

nature, it's, it's like a rabbit hole, you know, there's no

Kyle Pierce:

bottom to it. The deeper you go, the more you kind of come out

Kyle Pierce:

the other side, where you know, the more extremely negative and

Kyle Pierce:

dark you get Mikey kind of confined Utopia on the other

Kyle Pierce:

end. It's very, I want to say nebulous, because that's very

Kyle Pierce:

Neptune. Pluto, like, no, no, there is there's a way that

Kyle Pierce:

Pluto will make you kind of run circles a little bit, or you

Kyle Pierce:

just kind of like looking for you know, the end of the mystery

Kyle Pierce:

that, but it never comes. This actually now I'm feeling excited

Kyle Pierce:

because I remember a conversation that we had a while

Kyle Pierce:

back about. Like HP Lovecraft Pluto was discovered around the

Kyle Pierce:

time that HP Lovecraft was writing one of his stories. And

Kyle Pierce:

HP Lovecraft. I think it's called like The Godfather of

Kyle Pierce:

horror now. He's very like a niche author until maybe

Kyle Pierce:

recently. But his whole shtick was this idea of like, cosmic

Kyle Pierce:

horror, wasn't really so much about like big monsters or big

Kyle Pierce:

scares, but it was about like, the horror of the idea of like,

Kyle Pierce:

an indifferent universe, or something just so alien, that

Kyle Pierce:

that, like, from its perspective, he had these like

Kyle Pierce:

gods, like Monster gods or whatever, space entities that

Kyle Pierce:

like, weren't evil, per se. But like, just to them humans were

Kyle Pierce:

ants. Humans were nothing. And, you know, they could like squash

Kyle Pierce:

a whole planet of human beings. And it would be nothing to them.

Kyle Pierce:

And just that idea, really, like, he really like would dive

Kyle Pierce:

into like, those themes and that idea just how terrifying that

Kyle Pierce:

is, you know, of the understandable of the

Kyle Pierce:

unimaginable, you know, what lies outside of what's even

Kyle Pierce:

possible for humans to experience a really great story

Kyle Pierce:

called the color out of space. Which the whole story favorite

Kyle Pierce:

stories? Yeah, I love that story. And it's a color. I mean,

Kyle Pierce:

they're trying to describe a color that like your eyes that

Kyle Pierce:

we can't even comprehend. You know, it's just it's a color and

Kyle Pierce:

it's like, not anything you just make makes you fucking crazy.

Kyle Pierce:

Freakin crazy. To. To, to look upon it. Things also like

Kyle Pierce:

poisoning people and stuff.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it was it was killing people. Yeah. But

Tristan Paylor:

like for it, you know that the mechanism by which it is causing

Tristan Paylor:

death is unknown and undiscovered, unknowable beyond

Tristan Paylor:

anything we can comprehend,

Kyle Pierce:

or even the sight word or the Yeah, reason or

Kyle Pierce:

meaning. It's just Yeah, yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, there's a nihilism to like that horrifying

Tristan Paylor:

nihilism that like we live in an indifferent universe that is

Tristan Paylor:

populated with like godlike beings. And there is absolutely

Tristan Paylor:

no basis whatsoever for our relationship that is possible

Tristan Paylor:

for us and them to understand each other, there is no basis

Tristan Paylor:

for communication. So it you know, whereas like, in most

Tristan Paylor:

ideas of like deities, or supernatural beings, there's a

Tristan Paylor:

mode of communication by which we can kind of come to terms

Tristan Paylor:

with each other, you know, we may not ever fully comprehend

Tristan Paylor:

each other's experience or being but we can at least communicate

Tristan Paylor:

with the Lovecraftian universe, like there is nothing. Yeah, if

Tristan Paylor:

you even try to reach out and communicate with these beings,

Tristan Paylor:

it will just like, suck your brain out through your eyes.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. Which to me is like that's, that's the outer planets

Tristan Paylor:

is that's the world you're entering. When you enter that

Tristan Paylor:

realm. When you cross over Saturn's boundary, you're

Tristan Paylor:

entering into that realm. And then Pluto is the boundary of

Tristan Paylor:

that realm.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's not it's not God.

Kyle Pierce:

You know, it's not even the devil. It's not, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

can't be good or evil. Like there's no basis for

Tristan Paylor:

morality even Like, yeah, you can't

Kyle Pierce:

pray to it, you can't make a deal with it. It's

Kyle Pierce:

just it's utterly indifferent. In that, that's terrifying. And

Kyle Pierce:

that's, to me, that's like, what Pluto is about. It's those those

Kyle Pierce:

themes and you know, people can feel like that in society. I

Kyle Pierce:

think that's a problem of, you know, every society has always

Kyle Pierce:

had its problems. But there's, I think a industrialization sort

Kyle Pierce:

of brings that consumerism sort of brings that. Up, where you

Kyle Pierce:

know, your value to the community is not about you, as a

Kyle Pierce:

person. It's about you as a consumer, you know, what

Kyle Pierce:

products do you generate? And what products do you consume?

Kyle Pierce:

How do you contribute to the economy? That that's who you

Kyle Pierce:

are. And that, for some people is probably fine. I don't know.

Kyle Pierce:

You get caught up in it, you can lose yourself in it. But it can

Kyle Pierce:

also be extremely dehumanizing, and not, it doesn't really feed

Kyle Pierce:

you. I don't know, there's something hungry about Pluto.

Kyle Pierce:

But it's like insatiable. And I guess that's another aside that

Kyle Pierce:

I understand arguments for like, why some astrologers don't even

Kyle Pierce:

recognize the outer planets doing anything, because you can

Kyle Pierce:

pull a lot of the significations from other traditional bodies or

Kyle Pierce:

points like the there's like something kind of North annuity

Kyle Pierce:

north node about, about Pluto, but also south node, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

and something kind of, kind of Mars and something, there's

Kyle Pierce:

even, you know, people talking about like a, you know, weird

Kyle Pierce:

link with Venus. And you know, Pluto has a heart, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

obsession and desire. And I think if there there's something

Kyle Pierce:

that Pluto distorts the things to some degree or exaggerates.

Kyle Pierce:

But yeah, I don't know, I think that on a basic level, like we

Kyle Pierce:

needed, we need I think bluedot should have just the right time

Kyle Pierce:

for us to, you know, use that we need to talk about that.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, it's sort of an indication of a

Tristan Paylor:

conversation that we culturally really needed to have.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, it's something we don't really I

Kyle Pierce:

mean, have a lot of language for I think, either, like, why are

Kyle Pierce:

people killing themselves? Why are people shooting up schools,

Kyle Pierce:

like we don't really have language to talk about, we're

Kyle Pierce:

still figuring out language to talk about like the, the, sort

Kyle Pierce:

of like existential void that is sort of being created by this

Kyle Pierce:

rapid evolution, socially, that we're going through, like human

Kyle Pierce:

beings. 200 years ago, our life expectancies were like 40 years

Kyle Pierce:

old, I don't know, we were most of us were still farming. You

Kyle Pierce:

know, most of us still only really saw a couple 100 People

Kyle Pierce:

throughout most of our lives. We haven't caught up to where we

Kyle Pierce:

are now. No, we're, we're figuring it out. And I, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, I, I have Pluto opposing my son and Jupiter, have very

Kyle Pierce:

beat up on Jupiter. But it's still, you know, it's still

Kyle Pierce:

there. It's still like, I have I have this, like, great hope for

Kyle Pierce:

people. But I also see how easily we can mess that up. And

Kyle Pierce:

I think that that's kind of what we're talking about when we're

Kyle Pierce:

talking about Pluto talking about the outer planets, these

Kyle Pierce:

like huge, grand themes that go beyond, you know, your own

Kyle Pierce:

experience.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, they go because Jupiter and Saturn

Tristan Paylor:

represents a site, you know, they represent things on a

Tristan Paylor:

grander scale. And, you know, like you're saying, fairly

Tristan Paylor:

recently in human history, you know, people only knew may be,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, a small group of people, you know, we didn't have

Tristan Paylor:

the kind of global awareness that we have nowadays. And I

Tristan Paylor:

think that's one of the the uses of the outer planets in

Tristan Paylor:

astrology is they're very symbolic of globally, of global

Tristan Paylor:

concerns of things that are concerned on a global scale and

Tristan Paylor:

of our awareness of being part of a global community, and not

Tristan Paylor:

just not just part of, you know, a society or even part of a

Tristan Paylor:

single country, but being, you know, connected to the rest of

Tristan Paylor:

the world. And Pluto in particular, is really good for

Tristan Paylor:

tracking generations. And I don't think we've really been

Tristan Paylor:

tracking generations for that long. Like the popular idea of

Tristan Paylor:

like millennials and baby boomers and whatever I feel like

Tristan Paylor:

whenever I look at, look up generations, if they get starts

Tristan Paylor:

at the silent generation, maybe they think it kind of our idea

Tristan Paylor:

of sort of categorizing ourselves collectively into

Tristan Paylor:

these chunks of time. On a very, like global scale is pretty

Tristan Paylor:

recent, and also coincide As with the discovery of Pluto,

Tristan Paylor:

this is something I want to look into now is what is the history

Tristan Paylor:

of us tracking these generations? Because I feel like

Kyle Pierce:

no, you're you're right. On it like that. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

the silent generation begins in 1928,

Tristan Paylor:

literally a couple of years before Pluto was discovered. So

Tristan Paylor:

it's like Pluto's you know, when, when we're starting to

Tristan Paylor:

track these generations, you know, in in Western society.

Tristan Paylor:

Pluto comes onto the scene. And then like, weirdly, every time

Tristan Paylor:

Pluto changes sign, it actually lines up pretty well with the

Tristan Paylor:

generations as they're popularly defined, like Pluto's in

Tristan Paylor:

Scorpio, mostly for the millennial generation. And Pluto

Tristan Paylor:

was in Leo, mostly for the boomer generation. And so

Tristan Paylor:

becomes this really good symbol of these sort of more like,

Tristan Paylor:

large scale, collective issues and also larger scales of time.

Tristan Paylor:

Oh, yeah, we're like Saturn, Saturn is dealing with, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, like, you have your Saturn Return every, like 27 and a half

Tristan Paylor:

years or so. You'll never have a Pluto return. Yeah. Oh, yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

the scale of time is so much larger. So we're like Saturn was

Tristan Paylor:

our cosmic timekeeper now that we aren't just thinking about

Tristan Paylor:

individual lives, or the lives of the small community, we're

Tristan Paylor:

thinking about, you know, the, like, spans of generations, we

Tristan Paylor:

need a timekeeper that can keep track of longer periods of time.

Tristan Paylor:

And Pluto becomes really useful for that. So I mean, that's the

Tristan Paylor:

other function that I use it for. In astrology, I don't use

Tristan Paylor:

it so much to talk about, you know, events that happen in

Tristan Paylor:

somebody's life or their personality or whatever. But

Tristan Paylor:

more about, like, how do you feel about being part of your

Tristan Paylor:

generation? Like, how do you relate to the idea of being a

Tristan Paylor:

part of the generation and of the generation you're a part of,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, what, what is your experience of being a

Tristan Paylor:

millennial, or being a Boomer and, you know, if Pluto is

Tristan Paylor:

really prominent in your chart, that might say something about,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, how you represent the sort of issues of your time that

Tristan Paylor:

are really relevant to your time, you know, like you can,

Tristan Paylor:

there are lots of examples of people with Pluto prominent in

Tristan Paylor:

their chart, who are kind of like the poster children of

Tristan Paylor:

their generation, you know, like Elton John was one for for the

Tristan Paylor:

boomer generation with Pluto, and Leo, really prominent in his

Tristan Paylor:

chart, where he's just like, he really represents a sort of

Tristan Paylor:

cultural moment for his generation. And Copernicus was

Tristan Paylor:

another one, I believe, with Pluto, in his first house, sort

Tristan Paylor:

of, you know, like a huge figure in the scientific revolution.

Tristan Paylor:

And so like, you know, people who represent these, like

Tristan Paylor:

cultural generational changes having outer planets really

Tristan Paylor:

prominent in their chart, they're very, very impersonal.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. When it's Yeah, because it's just sort of

Kyle Pierce:

sweep you up a little bit. But you mean, they also I think,

Kyle Pierce:

well, you made like an excellent point that I want to make

Kyle Pierce:

chomping at the bit. I'm excited about this conversation a little

Kyle Pierce:

bit. You made a really good point about how the discovery

Kyle Pierce:

these planets tie in how we need these kinds of new timekeepers

Kyle Pierce:

to track these sort of generational shifts in

Kyle Pierce:

differences because you don't you didn't really get

Kyle Pierce:

historically so much of a generational rivalry, some

Kyle Pierce:

degree or like, you know, oh, it's the it's the fucking

Kyle Pierce:

boomers fault. Right, you know, those boomers hadn't screwed us

Kyle Pierce:

over, you know, we would have jobs right now that allowed us

Kyle Pierce:

to pay a mortgage or something like that, you know, those are

Kyle Pierce:

just want to say adversarial to some degree. But historically,

Kyle Pierce:

in traditional astrology, you know, what were the big cycles

Kyle Pierce:

that you had to track, you had really had the Jupiter Saturn

Kyle Pierce:

cycle, which actually can be stretched out to 200 years.

Kyle Pierce:

Because we just enter Yeah, the shifting to air, you know, where

Kyle Pierce:

the Jupiter, Saturn conjunctions are all going to be taking place

Kyle Pierce:

in air for the next 200 years or so. And that shift happens about

Kyle Pierce:

pretty consistently every 200 years. But the sort of mean sub

Kyle Pierce:

cycle of that is, you know, whenever Jupiter and Saturn have

Kyle Pierce:

a conjunction, you know, their opposition, but it was sort of

Kyle Pierce:

part of this ongoing continuous cycle. That was pretty stable.

Kyle Pierce:

Historically, you know, our progress, technology,

Kyle Pierce:

technologically, socially, had ups and downs, but we were

Kyle Pierce:

talking about longer stretches of time, like where it's

Kyle Pierce:

happening slowly. If you're living in 1500, maybe a little

Kyle Pierce:

bit in 1500, we'll say 1400. I don't know you're not going to

Kyle Pierce:

like feel super alienated from the people two or three

Kyle Pierce:

generations ahead of you. You know, like, you're gonna, you're

Kyle Pierce:

gonna listen to your elders, because they did the same stuff

Kyle Pierce:

that you were doing. But now it's happening faster and

Kyle Pierce:

faster. The people that are in their 70s Now, they're like,

Kyle Pierce:

they don't even, they don't understand people who are 20

Kyle Pierce:

Shit, I don't I don't understand me, to some degree a little bit,

Kyle Pierce:

I know that

Tristan Paylor:

I'm gap has grown because things change so

Tristan Paylor:

much more rapidly where you have potentially a lot more in common

Tristan Paylor:

with your elders in a previous era. But now things change so

Tristan Paylor:

rapidly that like it, it splits our generations generation gaps

Tristan Paylor:

are getting shorter and more aware. Yeah, it's like my, my

Tristan Paylor:

experience is so much more different from somebody 20 years

Tristan Paylor:

older or younger than me. And that's just getting more and

Tristan Paylor:

more intense.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I know, I'm pretty much accepted. I'm never

Kyle Pierce:

going to catch up with technology. You know? Already,

Kyle Pierce:

my son is seven. And he like just his brain is like wired to

Kyle Pierce:

technology knows how to like, it just makes sense to him in ways

Kyle Pierce:

that it never will for me, because while I would say that I

Kyle Pierce:

better would you call it like your your early experiences of

Kyle Pierce:

technology existed? Like, you know, we had VCRs right? You had

Kyle Pierce:

a VCR when you were a kid? Oh, yeah. You had a phone with a

Kyle Pierce:

cord on it.

Tristan Paylor:

It's the best part of rewatching the X Files

Tristan Paylor:

is the nostalgia for all the technology I grew up with. Yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

You know, every, every time I see one of those phones, it just

Tristan Paylor:

brings me such joy. Yeah, yeah. Like I had that phone. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

Well, I know, the technology that we grew up kind

Kyle Pierce:

of with in our everyday lives was not crazy, different from

Kyle Pierce:

our parents, you know, it was different. Yeah, it was new, but

Kyle Pierce:

we're sort of like, experiencing this new technology together.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, it wasn't like, so dramatic as it might be like now

Kyle Pierce:

where, you know, social media, like was getting sort of popular

Kyle Pierce:

when I was in high school. But now it's like, it's part of

Kyle Pierce:

your, your childhood. Like, it's, it's Yeah, your experience

Kyle Pierce:

of childhood is inherently tied to the internet. And we were in

Kyle Pierce:

the that sort of very early internet period. So like, on

Kyle Pierce:

some level can relate to that anyway, totally beside, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, we don't want the, you know, the traditional plants

Kyle Pierce:

don't really have the same kind of mechanism for tracking that

Kyle Pierce:

sort of wide disparity that really kind of started around,

Kyle Pierce:

around the discovery of the outer planets where you started

Kyle Pierce:

to get like technology really shifting enough in the span of a

Kyle Pierce:

lifetime. Where life is very much different from the people.

Kyle Pierce:

You know, if you're if you're at, you know, the kids grown up,

Kyle Pierce:

in if you're born in night, wait long winded. You were born in

Kyle Pierce:

1850. You know, you grew up with like muskets and stuff around

Kyle Pierce:

and that level of technology, and then you know, if you're at

Kyle Pierce:

in 1930, you know, the kids growing up, are in just a

Kyle Pierce:

totally different world than the one you lived in. That really

Kyle Pierce:

didn't happen before. We don't believe you know, live in not

Kyle Pierce:

hopefully, in a lifetime.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. And I was like, there is a time when you

Tristan Paylor:

know, you could look at a child and their childhood would not

Tristan Paylor:

look all that different from your own childhood, even though

Tristan Paylor:

you're much older. And now you look at a child and you're like,

Tristan Paylor:

you are from a different planet. Yeah. My childhood resembled

Tristan Paylor:

yours in like, no way whatsoever. Yeah. I made I made

Tristan Paylor:

a mistake. It was the last generation that has ever watched

Tristan Paylor:

the names. The names generations of the Western world begin with

Tristan Paylor:

the last generation, which was from 1883 to 1900. And those

Tristan Paylor:

were the folks who became adults during World War One. Yeah, so

Tristan Paylor:

sort of like was the when you're sort of tracking like the the

Tristan Paylor:

history of the modern Western world. I feel like Pluto's kind

Tristan Paylor:

of got its hands all over it.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. That I guess maybe maybe that's why I'm so

Kyle Pierce:

fascinated with I've always been fascinated with World War One in

Kyle Pierce:

particular, because it is this like, really apocalyptic moment.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, it started when Pluto was in cancer, I

Tristan Paylor:

believe and Pluto was discovered in cancer, still in cancer when

Tristan Paylor:

it was discovered. So it's sort of like the aftermath of Pluto's

Tristan Paylor:

ingress into cancer is when it was discovered.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, well, it's something I want to when it

Kyle Pierce:

eventually comes out the episode of Cosmos which is turning into

Kyle Pierce:

sow I, you know, so I know that Pluto's real. It's a real

Kyle Pierce:

object, but I think it does something is this idea for a

Kyle Pierce:

project? And I'm like, oh, yeah, let's do it about this. And then

Kyle Pierce:

it turns into, I go down 20 Different rabbit holes, it turns

Kyle Pierce:

into something way bigger than I had originally intended. Oh, or

Kyle Pierce:

you know, or I want to just like, This is too much. Screw

Kyle Pierce:

it. I put a pretty, like I said, a lot of aspects to stuff. But I

Kyle Pierce:

lost my point.

Tristan Paylor:

One last one last thing I want to touch on,

Tristan Paylor:

maybe before we move on to the next question, because you know,

Tristan Paylor:

Haley was asking about Pluto also in the context of you know,

Tristan Paylor:

it being a dwarf planet. And now we know you know, there are

Tristan Paylor:

other dwarf planets, because the categories the scientific

Tristan Paylor:

definitions have changed. So, you know, if, if Pluto is still

Tristan Paylor:

considered a planet in astrology, there's that question

Tristan Paylor:

of well, what about all the other work planets? Which is a

Tristan Paylor:

very good question. Definitely a rabbit hole. We don't need to go

Tristan Paylor:

down right now necessarily, but are you sure just to just to

Tristan Paylor:

touch a little bit. I mean, I want to but for the sake of our

Tristan Paylor:

listeners, we should probably not record a four hour podcast.

Tristan Paylor:

But one thing I think is important to know is that the

Tristan Paylor:

astronomical definition of a planet is not necessarily the

Tristan Paylor:

astrological definition of a planet. In in astrology, a

Tristan Paylor:

planet is just a wandering star, it's just an object that moves

Tristan Paylor:

across the background of the fixed stars, it moves through

Tristan Paylor:

the ecliptic. So you know, the sun and the moon and astrology

Tristan Paylor:

are planets. They're not astronomically planets by any

Tristan Paylor:

means. The moon is the moon and the sun is a star. But in

Tristan Paylor:

astrology, we refer to them as planets because it's just the

Tristan Paylor:

wandering celestial shiny things as opposed to the fixed

Tristan Paylor:

celestial shiny things. And, you know, Pluto fits that

Tristan Paylor:

astrological definition. And I think, you know, astrology is

Tristan Paylor:

not a, like scientific phenomenon. It's a cultural

Tristan Paylor:

phenomenon. Pluto meant something culturally when it was

Tristan Paylor:

discovered, and you know, astrologers whose job it is to

Tristan Paylor:

look at the sky and, you know, figure out what it symbolizes.

Tristan Paylor:

When a discovery is made immediately go What does it

Tristan Paylor:

mean? And, you know, Pluto has not only played a role in our

Tristan Paylor:

culture through astrology, but just like, you know, when I like

Tristan Paylor:

we were talking about the magic school bus if you learned about

Tristan Paylor:

the solar system, watching the magic school bus in the 90s, you

Tristan Paylor:

learn that Pluto was a planet. Yeah. And that it was named

Tristan Paylor:

after the god of the underworld, and that it was far away and

Tristan Paylor:

spooky and cold and small. And so you know, you have all of

Tristan Paylor:

these like subjective feelings and experiences that you tie

Kyle Pierce:

when you have to create a moment where what was

Kyle Pierce:

his name? His name, His name? What was his name? Like I knew

Kyle Pierce:

we shouldn't go on fields. Reynolds Arnold. Yeah, I think

Kyle Pierce:

that moment when Arnold takes his helmet off, because

Kyle Pierce:

everybody's arguing and

Unknown:

all his head at first forget that moment terrifying

Unknown:

for my school bus traumatized and it was

Tristan Paylor:

burned into my brain. Like that, that's a

Tristan Paylor:

cultural moment, right? Like, that's our cultural impression

Tristan Paylor:

of Pluto and Scorpio experience. That was truly as a member of

Tristan Paylor:

the Pluto and Scorpio generation that was a Pluto in Scorpio

Tristan Paylor:

experience and that, so like, whether or not Pluto is devoted

Tristan Paylor:

by astronomers doesn't necessarily change what it means

Tristan Paylor:

to us culturally. And since astrology is about what things

Tristan Paylor:

mean to us, culturally, doesn't necessarily change its role in

Tristan Paylor:

astrology any, it can still carry on is it has carried on

Tristan Paylor:

since it was first you know, interpreted by astrologers in

Tristan Paylor:

1930.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I guess my going theory for why astrology

Kyle Pierce:

works in general, and maybe why Pluto ends up working. Aside

Kyle Pierce:

from us just being crazy and just making it up, because you

Kyle Pierce:

do but you know, we just didn't need to we throw enough thoughts

Kyle Pierce:

at Pluto. To give it meaning, you know? Yep. Totally be a

Kyle Pierce:

holder of ideas and thoughts for us. Yeah, that's a good way to

Kyle Pierce:

put it. And we didn't do that for other planets that maybe

Kyle Pierce:

could have had the same potential you know, I don't

Kyle Pierce:

know.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, for whatever reason. And that's I

Tristan Paylor:

mean, that's something I'd like to do more research on to figure

Tristan Paylor:

out like, Why didn't series become you know, really

Tristan Paylor:

important early in in you know, when it was discovered, why

Tristan Paylor:

didn't astrologers jump on it?

Kyle Pierce:

Maybe that's what series means. being overlooked

Kyle Pierce:

and bad timing required to have on your midheaven

Tristan Paylor:

and it's on my midheaven to being overlooked

Tristan Paylor:

Great. Always doing things at the wrong time. And you know,

Tristan Paylor:

and then Pluto you know, being mean, it's demotion was also a

Tristan Paylor:

cultural event. And there were actually people who protested

Tristan Paylor:

it, like I was looking at articles from I think it was

Tristan Paylor:

like 2006 or whenever it was when the Astronomical Union made

Tristan Paylor:

this decision, and there were like, literally people at

Tristan Paylor:

universities carrying signs like sighs Doesn't matter and

Tristan Paylor:

protesting Pluto's demotion

Unknown:

for when was demoted now

Tristan Paylor:

to Yeah, that'll that'll be our our next task

Unknown:

is being overcome by Saturn or something.

Tristan Paylor:

So now you know Pluto also symbolizes starting

Tristan Paylor:

out, starting out strong and then being pushed into yeah

Kyle Pierce:

maybe we maybe we need to be careful about the

Kyle Pierce:

things we think about the planets. I don't know maybe the

Kyle Pierce:

momentum is too big now

Tristan Paylor:

I think the momentum is too big. I think

Tristan Paylor:

it's totally I mean it's really my I'm not an expert on

Tristan Paylor:

evolutionary astrology but my understanding is that Pluto is

Tristan Paylor:

quite central to that tradition of astrology. So yeah, you can't

Tristan Paylor:

undo something that you know you've given meaning to Pluto

Tristan Paylor:

has too much meaning for us now. It's it's here to stay. It's

Tristan Paylor:

with us. And, you know, the other dwarf planets may yet you

Tristan Paylor:

know become powerful symbols depending on how we relate to

Tristan Paylor:

them. But we just haven't related to them to that level,

Tristan Paylor:

at least not yet. could still happen.

Kyle Pierce:

This train of thought is really bumming me out

Kyle Pierce:

about series.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, I

Unknown:

think there's still a lot I just don't relate to you

Unknown:

series.

Tristan Paylor:

This is nuts. It's not that potential for

Tristan Paylor:

series.

Kyle Pierce:

Yes, absolutely. Series is, you know, series

Kyle Pierce:

actually means huge success and love from everybody. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

everybody wants to be your friend. Yeah. And just the right

Kyle Pierce:

amount of people want to be your friend to many. series is just

Kyle Pierce:

everything just right. That's what seriously,

Tristan Paylor:

I like that. I like that a lot. I'll have I'll

Tristan Paylor:

have that on my midheaven I'm okay with that. Say

Kyle Pierce:

it over and over and over again.

Tristan Paylor:

Yes, serious. This year series is the new cool

Tristan Paylor:

planet. It's the new edgy planet that everyone cares about.

Tristan Paylor:

Everyone asks, you know, and they call up their astrologer.

Tristan Paylor:

They're like I want to know about series of my chart. I want

Tristan Paylor:

to know what series of my partner's chart I want to know

Tristan Paylor:

but like other aspects between you know, it's going to be the

Tristan Paylor:

new Pluto everyone asks about Pluto, because it's mysterious.

Tristan Paylor:

It's like a cool name. I know Pluto is such a good name as the

Tristan Paylor:

other thing they really nailed. I

Kyle Pierce:

know Pluto like catch a series. Yes.

Tristan Paylor:

Do soft Pluto's Pluto's edgy.

Kyle Pierce:

We really want to use extreme planets now URIs.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

yeah. You know, it's like all the all the stuff

Tristan Paylor:

that people are interested in when they ask questions about

Tristan Paylor:

astrology is like the darkest, heaviest celestial bodies you

Tristan Paylor:

can, you know, people start like learning about the fixed stars.

Tristan Paylor:

And it's like we just fixate on our goal is like there's this

Tristan Paylor:

star that represents like de Campbell's demons. That's the

Tristan Paylor:

one we want to ask.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Which one is going to cut my head off and

Kyle Pierce:

which one is gonna make me fabulously rich and famous?

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

those are our two concerns.

Unknown:

All right. All right.

Tristan Paylor:

We just probably I think we answered. Hopefully,

Tristan Paylor:

when we started. We could keep going. There are a lot. There

Tristan Paylor:

are lots of reasons to use Pluto. But hopefully we've

Tristan Paylor:

outlined a couple of reasons that Pluto's is useful and we

Tristan Paylor:

should keep it. Yeah, yes. All right. One sort of next

Tristan Paylor:

question. I'm going to get everything ready so we can knock

Tristan Paylor:

this puppy out. We're going to knock a puppy out we're going to

Tristan Paylor:

slaughter this chart, just slaughtered this

Unknown:

puppy.

Tristan Paylor:

All the violent metaphors we are we are

Tristan Paylor:

remediating right now. Oh yeah, we are making Mars happy.

Kyle Pierce:

Right now I'm lovin Mars in Scorpio. I feel like oh,

Kyle Pierce:

this is the energy like I Yeah. This episode of astrology

Kyle Pierce:

hotline is brought to you by newsletter. If you're anything

Kyle Pierce:

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Kyle Pierce:

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Kyle Pierce:

watching how they correlate with transiting planets is a great

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promo code astrology, 2021. That's astrology, with zeros

Kyle Pierce:

instead of O's, when you want to stop scrolling, and start

Kyle Pierce:

listening, now on to the show. Okay. All right. So our second

Kyle Pierce:

question comes from Jessica. So Jessica asks, I became an

Kyle Pierce:

engineer and have been working for a couple years, but this

Kyle Pierce:

career field does not feel right for me at all, doing a great job

Kyle Pierce:

making lots of money, but unhappy. What does my chart say

Kyle Pierce:

about this? Well, just I'm very sorry to hear that. That's a

Kyle Pierce:

rough situation to find yourself in. I actually, like, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

a handful of people, a lot of engineers, it seems, who kind of

Kyle Pierce:

hate their jobs, but they love the money. And I guess the first

Kyle Pierce:

thing that, you know, my I see, looking at Jessica's chart, is

Kyle Pierce:

just gonna has Capricorn rising to 10 degrees or so. And

Kyle Pierce:

Jupiter, very close to the ascendant at about 10 degrees.

Kyle Pierce:

Jupiter has like risen, like right above the horizon, very

Kyle Pierce:

prominent.

Tristan Paylor:

Think maybe when one thing that might be good to

Tristan Paylor:

mention, because Jessica sent us her chart in a placidus system,

Tristan Paylor:

that we're we're using whole science. So Jessica, if you're

Tristan Paylor:

really familiar with the placidus house system, some of

Tristan Paylor:

your house placements might be a bit different. In our

Tristan Paylor:

interpretation, yeah. So yeah, bear with us.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. And just to clarify, yeah, so are the charts

Kyle Pierce:

that you might be used to seeing that house is sort of divided,

Kyle Pierce:

based on a different mechanism that we're gonna go into, but

Kyle Pierce:

then in Wholesaling Houses, we just treat each sign of the

Kyle Pierce:

zodiac as its own house. So like the Sidious, Jupiter would

Kyle Pierce:

probably be considered in the 12th house, because it is above

Kyle Pierce:

the horizon. And it's, you know, on the debug horizon side of the

Kyle Pierce:

ascendant degree. But we would just use the whole sign of

Kyle Pierce:

Capricorn as your your first house. So a lot of different

Kyle Pierce:

house systems. And as you learn more about astrology, I'm sure

Kyle Pierce:

you'll set a one on one that you like, but hopefully, we make a

Kyle Pierce:

convert of you. We prefer the the whole sign house system. So

Kyle Pierce:

other houses have their virtues as well. Anywho Yeah, we'll just

Kyle Pierce:

give a brief rundown of Jessica's chart. So like I said,

Kyle Pierce:

Capricorn rising with Jupiter in the first at 10 degrees. Saturn

Kyle Pierce:

in Aries in the fourth house, ruling the first Venus in Venus

Kyle Pierce:

and Mars in Gemini in the sixth house, and Sun and Mercury in

Kyle Pierce:

the eighth house in Leo. And finally the the Moon in Scorpio

Kyle Pierce:

in the 11th house. We'll just say the outers speaking of the

Kyle Pierce:

outers, you know, we spent an hour talking about how important

Kyle Pierce:

they are, but for our purposes, we'll just maybe stick with

Kyle Pierce:

those.

Tristan Paylor:

And also, you know, as as always, for

Tristan Paylor:

listeners, following along with our interpretations, Jessica's

Tristan Paylor:

chart will be in the show notes, if you want to look at a picture

Tristan Paylor:

of it. So you can follow along while you listen, it will be

Tristan Paylor:

there for you

Kyle Pierce:

know, yeah, though, the first thing that popped out

Kyle Pierce:

to me was the Jupiter in the first house in Capricorn. Would

Kyle Pierce:

you what caught your eye? Kristen,

Tristan Paylor:

that was the first thing for me too, is

Tristan Paylor:

Jupiter and Neptune, in Capricorn in the first house.

Tristan Paylor:

And, you know, kind of carrying over what we were saying about

Tristan Paylor:

the outer planets. You know, Neptune is one of the

Tristan Paylor:

generational planets and I really like Austin Copics

Tristan Paylor:

interpretation of how the outer planets relate to particular

Tristan Paylor:

generations. And you know, he looks at Neptune as being sort

Tristan Paylor:

of like the dreams and ideals and visions of that particular

Tristan Paylor:

generation. And, you know, as

Kyle Pierce:

I said, we tend to be disillusioned as well.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. As as a member. As a member of the

Tristan Paylor:

Neptune and Capricorn cohort myself. You know, I laugh when I

Tristan Paylor:

see Neptune in Capricorn because it's, it's an odd place for

Tristan Paylor:

Neptune for a dreamy planet, in you know, a sign that's very

Tristan Paylor:

much about survival and resourcefulness and practical

Tristan Paylor:

concerns. And so I always think, you know, for for those of us

Tristan Paylor:

who are part of the Neptune in Capricorn generation, most of us

Tristan Paylor:

are millennials. Our sort of generational dream or vision is

Tristan Paylor:

just like job security you know, other other generations may or

Tristan Paylor:

madman Yeah or Mad Max. Yeah, exactly. That's, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

that's our vision of although we're all into the wasteland

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. And that's, you know, that's right up in the in the

Tristan Paylor:

first house. there. And you know, Jupiter is also like, I

Tristan Paylor:

mean, Jupiter and Neptune are both dreamers Jupiter is about

Tristan Paylor:

faith and optimism. And so we have these, like, sort of dreamy

Tristan Paylor:

planets, but in the sign of Capricorn, which is pragmatic

Tristan Paylor:

and not really about dreaming big, and you know, Capricorn,

Tristan Paylor:

it's like, it makes sense, like the time of year, when the sun

Tristan Paylor:

is in Capricorn, and the northern hemisphere, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

corresponds with the beginning of winter, and it's not the time

Tristan Paylor:

for big, idealistic, beautiful dreams, it's the time to like,

Tristan Paylor:

Okay, we need to really, like, buckle down, gather our things

Tristan Paylor:

and try not to die because Winter's coming, right. So, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, there's this like, right in the first house, I can

Tristan Paylor:

already see this kind of conflicts between what makes

Tristan Paylor:

sense for my survival, versus like, what are the sort of

Tristan Paylor:

bigger dreams and visions that I might be a part of, or that

Tristan Paylor:

might actually make me happy? And I think that's sort of a

Tristan Paylor:

common experience for a lot of people in in our generation,

Tristan Paylor:

those of us who have Neptune in Capricorn.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, I would say that Jupiter and Capricorn is

Kyle Pierce:

quite good at, like you were saying, like, assessing and

Kyle Pierce:

providing for the survival needs, you know, security, long

Kyle Pierce:

term durable security, but not necessarily, you know, it can

Kyle Pierce:

struggle a bit in figuring out how to meet its how to feed its

Kyle Pierce:

soul. It's really good at that. And like, Pisces, it's really

Kyle Pierce:

good at that, and, you know, cancer in Sagittarius as well.

Kyle Pierce:

But you know, in Capricorn, it's, it's, that is maybe the

Kyle Pierce:

big struggle, I would say, Jupiter and Capricorn is

Kyle Pierce:

figuring out what gives life meaning or what would we need

Kyle Pierce:

beyond, you know, just these material things that give me the

Kyle Pierce:

security that I require? And is it possible?

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, the thing about Jupiter? Yeah. Is

Unknown:

it even possible? Yeah. Is it realistic? Yeah.

Tristan Paylor:

I mean, think about Jupiter in, you know, one

Tristan Paylor:

of the signs where it feels really comfortable, like Pisces

Tristan Paylor:

or Sagittarius or cancer, which, you know, is the opposite to

Tristan Paylor:

Capricorn is that Jupiter is, you know, willing to have faith

Tristan Paylor:

that, you know, even if it doesn't seem likely, you know,

Tristan Paylor:

Jupiter believes that, you know, following after meaning, as

Tristan Paylor:

opposed to following after security is doable. I have it

Tristan Paylor:

basically, you know, Jupiter is, is willing to, you know, follow

Tristan Paylor:

after what gives life meaning and what feeds its soul. And

Tristan Paylor:

it's not inherently concerned with whether or not that pays

Tristan Paylor:

the bills. Jupiter in Capricorn maybe has a little bit of

Tristan Paylor:

trouble accessing that sense of optimism that, you know, you can

Tristan Paylor:

follow after, what gives your life meaning without having to

Tristan Paylor:

sacrifice your survival or your security in the, in the process.

Kyle Pierce:

Jupiter, you know, it's the app tells you like,

Kyle Pierce:

what's possible. And while it's in Capricorn, it's gonna tell

Kyle Pierce:

you like, gonna tend to think or believe that, you know, not

Kyle Pierce:

much, you know, or it's gonna have a hard time, especially,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, I don't like, freak out too much about Jupiter

Kyle Pierce:

retrograde. But I'd say, you know, Jupiter retrograde in

Kyle Pierce:

Capricorn is a bit more conservative, it's a bit more

Kyle Pierce:

consolidating, you know, it's like, really maybe a little like

Kyle Pierce:

extra averse to taking risks, kind of risks that, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

one might take when they believe that their dreams are possible.

Kyle Pierce:

Now, saying that is not saying that your dreams are not

Kyle Pierce:

possible. Say that at all. It's just the finding that the faith

Kyle Pierce:

really, you know, daring to dream, but it sounds like you're

Kyle Pierce:

kind of already in that process of like, you know, realizing

Kyle Pierce:

that, you know, this isn't fulfilling for me, and maybe I

Kyle Pierce:

need to figure out, you obviously are at least willing

Kyle Pierce:

to consider that something better as possible. And I would

Kyle Pierce:

say that there is an emphasis with this theme when you get

Kyle Pierce:

Saturn in Aries ruling the first house because find that Saturn

Kyle Pierce:

in Aries it's actually kind of a bit of an archetypal story. To

Kyle Pierce:

some degree, that there's a weird kind of, you know, sounds

Kyle Pierce:

almost like an overlap between Jupiter and Capricorn and Saturn

Kyle Pierce:

in Aries. But there are similar themes that Saturn tends to

Kyle Pierce:

struggle a bit in Aries as well because you know, planets in

Kyle Pierce:

Aries have this expectations of them of themselves, that they

Kyle Pierce:

are going to succeed right out of the gate, you know, that they

Kyle Pierce:

are going to charge through the enemy lines and you know, bust

Kyle Pierce:

through the trenches and conquer the enemy and you know, when,

Kyle Pierce:

but Saturn by nature moves a lot slower than that. It's a

Kyle Pierce:

cautious planet and it's a much more of a long term thinking

Kyle Pierce:

planet. And I find that an experience that a lot people

Kyle Pierce:

Saturn in Aries have, especially when it's prominent is you know,

Kyle Pierce:

sort of getting handed down this expectation of success of what

Kyle Pierce:

that means. And like really feeling like their sense of self

Kyle Pierce:

worth is just really wrapped up in it. And sometimes they'll get

Kyle Pierce:

themselves into situations that are not fulfilling or really

Kyle Pierce:

conducive to happiness or, you know, sometimes long term

Kyle Pierce:

sustainability based on, you know, expectations that aren't

Kyle Pierce:

really suited to them. Such as, you know, being an engineer,

Kyle Pierce:

when maybe, maybe something else would have been better.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, I was looking at looking at Saturn and

Tristan Paylor:

how it is also retrograde. So it's a slow planet going going

Tristan Paylor:

backwards. So the theme of slowness reconsidering its Yeah

Tristan Paylor:

Is, is emphasized when Saturn is retrograde. You know, and ruling

Tristan Paylor:

the ascendant because Jessica's Ascendant is Capricorn you know,

Tristan Paylor:

make Saturn kind of the captain of of this chart, and really an

Tristan Paylor:

important player in you know, helping Jessica to realize her

Tristan Paylor:

identity and what direction she wants her life to go in. And

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn retrograde in Fall is not going to do anything quick.

Unknown:

second guess that it does? Quite quite a bit.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. Yeah. second guessing is the definite

Tristan Paylor:

theme there. And you know, the, the kind of the solution, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, with Saturn retrograde is always patience and just kind of

Tristan Paylor:

accepting that, like, Saturn standards are very high and

Tristan Paylor:

meeting those standards. Yeah, takes time. You know, that it's

Tristan Paylor:

like, Saturn is like, I think it was Austin Copic who compared

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn to cooking a turkey? Yeah, where like, you have to

Tristan Paylor:

leave that sucker in the oven for a few hours, if you're gonna

Tristan Paylor:

get a really good, you know, Christmas turkey. That is how

Tristan Paylor:

Saturn operates. It's like, I want mastery, I want perfection.

Tristan Paylor:

And that's not going to happen overnight. And that can be

Tristan Paylor:

frustrating when Saturn is in a sign that wants things to happen

Tristan Paylor:

right away. Oh, yeah, he's,

Kyle Pierce:

yeah, any planet that's in the condition known as

Kyle Pierce:

fall, which means it's in the opposite of its sign of

Kyle Pierce:

exaltation, such as Saturn in Aries exalted in Libra, you kind

Kyle Pierce:

of get, you can get kind of extreme of behavior, or in the

Kyle Pierce:

sense of continue with that analogy, it's kind of like

Kyle Pierce:

wanting to cook the turkey too fast, and you know, shoving it

Kyle Pierce:

in the oven and like blasting, you know, flames on it and

Kyle Pierce:

trying to eat it and like the outside is burnt. But the inside

Kyle Pierce:

is, you know, cold and raw. Or, you know, the opposite. Being

Kyle Pierce:

too worried about the turkey coming out badly that you never

Kyle Pierce:

made put it in the oven to begin with. You know, the the fear of

Kyle Pierce:

failure is really a heavy one for for Saturn and Aries. And

Kyle Pierce:

it's kind of like the big challenge the big obstacle. And

Kyle Pierce:

I would say that that gets a little more emphasized when it's

Kyle Pierce:

under the south note as well. Maybe expectations of oneself

Kyle Pierce:

can get a little low and maybe you know, can find yourself in

Kyle Pierce:

situations where, you know, people might take advantage of

Kyle Pierce:

that it's possible, but maybe more likely is going to be

Kyle Pierce:

feeling like, you know, the feeling of being shortchanged.

Kyle Pierce:

But you know, all that being said, there's quite a bit going

Kyle Pierce:

for you and your chart actually really like while Jupiter you

Kyle Pierce:

know, can they both both planets have their struggle in those

Kyle Pierce:

signs, they have advantages in that they are considered diurnal

Kyle Pierce:

planets, their daytime planets, they do well, during the day.

Kyle Pierce:

And you know, you were born during the day. So you have the

Kyle Pierce:

sun above the horizon, that in and of itself is going to make

Kyle Pierce:

them a little more compatible with their environment, a little

Kyle Pierce:

more able to achieve things. And even just you know, the fact

Kyle Pierce:

that you became an engineer, which I can't I could not

Kyle Pierce:

imagine going to engineering school that sounds like a

Kyle Pierce:

nightmare. I would have bombed horribly in engineering school.

Kyle Pierce:

So I mean, give yourself some credit for for that. Jupiter is

Kyle Pierce:

also you know, its own bound. Just like this little kind of

Kyle Pierce:

house within the sign little sweet slick has just, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

some Jupiter stuff that Jupiter you know, has access to that

Kyle Pierce:

makes it a little more comfortable, a little more able

Kyle Pierce:

to figure things out in Capricorn, you know, Jupiter in

Kyle Pierce:

the position that it's ending earlier. And today a call order

Kyle Pierce:

it's overcoming Saturn, you know, so it's like imposing

Kyle Pierce:

goodness on Saturn and Saturn past some responsibility to

Kyle Pierce:

Jupiter because Jupiter is in Saturn sign. So Saturn is going

Kyle Pierce:

to be maybe a little more receptive to, to what Jupiter is

Kyle Pierce:

offering the possibility of hope. But like all all things in

Kyle Pierce:

Capricorn, that takes time maybe to figure out, maybe it's gonna

Kyle Pierce:

take you some time to figure out what it is exactly what to do.

Tristan Paylor:

So yeah, just on the subject of, like, really

Tristan Paylor:

dignified placements in this chart, the thing that really,

Tristan Paylor:

really stood out to me more than anything else, is the very, very

Tristan Paylor:

close sun, Uranus opposition. The by far the closest applying

Tristan Paylor:

aspect in this chart, is the opposition between the sun and

Tristan Paylor:

Leo in the eighth house and Uranus in Aquarius in the second

Tristan Paylor:

house. And you know, as I was looking over this whole chart,

Tristan Paylor:

and I was like, Oh, this is a career question, I should look

Tristan Paylor:

at the 10th house, whatever the son was just screaming at me, it

Tristan Paylor:

was like no trust and look at me, which is what the sun in Leo

Tristan Paylor:

wants, which makes sense. It just like, I was like, Oh, this

Tristan Paylor:

is really, really telling me a story. Because the sun is like,

Tristan Paylor:

really well placed by sign in this chart. The sun rules Leo.

Tristan Paylor:

So it likes being in Leo. It's like being at home, it's very

Tristan Paylor:

comfortable as all of its resources available to it has

Tristan Paylor:

everything it needs to succeed. And there's another you know,

Tristan Paylor:

more minor form of sign bass dignity happening here to where

Tristan Paylor:

the sun is in its own triplicity which is another little sort of

Tristan Paylor:

boost to the sun in terms of, you know, enabling it to do what

Tristan Paylor:

it wants to do. And like someone who is a successful engineer and

Tristan Paylor:

like that is you know, the sun and Leo in a day chart is like,

Tristan Paylor:

I applied myself to something really difficult and became

Tristan Paylor:

really successful and I'm making a lot of money at it like the

Tristan Paylor:

sun and Leo is capable of doing there's so much like capacity to

Tristan Paylor:

succeed at its goals.

Kyle Pierce:

capability is not my concern at all with this.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. But that's but the thing is that like it's

Tristan Paylor:

in this really tight opposition with Uranus. So you know, the

Tristan Paylor:

the sun in Leo can succeed at what is kind of expected of it.

Tristan Paylor:

You know, what it's expected to accomplish in the eighth house?

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah, but it's hearing this call from the unknown. You know, as

Tristan Paylor:

we talked about the outer planets kind of representing

Tristan Paylor:

what is outside the realm of the known and Uranus it's I don't

Tristan Paylor:

know I was I was imagining like frozen to with that song where

Tristan Paylor:

she's being like called away by this mysterious song and into

Tristan Paylor:

into the unknown. Imagine that you're Uranus is this like siren

Tristan Paylor:

like, you know, in this mysterious wilderness, like

Tristan Paylor:

outside of your window? That's, that's kind of calling you and

Tristan Paylor:

saying there's something else out here. There's something more

Unknown:

people Little Mermaid. It's yeah, it's like

Tristan Paylor:

it's like The Little Mermaid. And it's, it's a

Tristan Paylor:

little frustrating because it's hard to know what exactly Uranus

Tristan Paylor:

is calling the sun to do or see. And that's made more frustrating

Tristan Paylor:

by the fact that the sun and Uranus are in houses that are

Tristan Paylor:

traditionally associated with concealment and invisibility.

Tristan Paylor:

The second and the eighth houses are like the gates of the

Tristan Paylor:

underworld it's very in traditional Australia they're a

Tristan Paylor:

spooky like you you can't really easily see what's going on in

Tristan Paylor:

the second and eighth houses. So it's like there's this you know,

Tristan Paylor:

your soul is being called to something but it's not

Tristan Paylor:

necessarily easy to see what it is. Or you know, even if you can

Tristan Paylor:

see what it is like okay, well then how do I make it an actual

Tristan Paylor:

thing like the sun and Leo you know, wants to like make

Tristan Paylor:

something visible make something obvious, like what is the plan

Tristan Paylor:

I'm I can succeed it this express

Kyle Pierce:

itself, like pure like, in a pure way? Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

It's like all about I have a terrible time. Talking about

Kyle Pierce:

Leo, in a way that doesn't sound just totally narcissistic.

Kyle Pierce:

Forgive me, it sounds that way. But some degree, I mean, it's, I

Kyle Pierce:

mean, it's important to have that faculty of, you know, like,

Kyle Pierce:

yeah, it is about me, all right, you know, what I want is

Kyle Pierce:

important. expressing myself as important. Being authentic is

Kyle Pierce:

important. Because, you know, it's through that experience of

Kyle Pierce:

being authentic that you're able to actually recognize other

Kyle Pierce:

people for their, you know, unique and authentic self and I

Kyle Pierce:

think that you know, generally what the sun in Leo wants to do.

Kyle Pierce:

But there's like a theme that goes along with kind of what we

Kyle Pierce:

talked about with Jupiter and Saturn. You know, one of the

Kyle Pierce:

more mundane, mundane, but, but less dramatic, more everyday

Kyle Pierce:

elements of the eighth house, is this sense of responsibility?

Kyle Pierce:

Or, you know, what you're kind of obliged to do,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, is for other people. Yeah. It's about

Kyle Pierce:

other people more than it's about you. It's about

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, obligations to other people or, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

expectations from other people. And the eighth house, it's kind

Kyle Pierce:

of a less visible house, and it's not the son's favorite

Kyle Pierce:

place to be, but I bet you have great credit.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, yeah, that was something I really wanted to

Tristan Paylor:

touch on was that theme with the eighth house of, you know, being

Tristan Paylor:

accountable to others. The seventh and eighth houses are

Tristan Paylor:

not, well, the sixth, the whole tree of the sixth, seventh, and

Tristan Paylor:

eighth, you know, those are not selfish houses, those are houses

Tristan Paylor:

that are about, you know, service, or responsibility, or

Tristan Paylor:

commitment to other people in your life. You know, the seventh

Tristan Paylor:

and eighth are both houses of partnership. So, you know, the

Tristan Paylor:

sun and Leo being so like, dignified, and having so much,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, competence, it can really succeed at meeting other

Tristan Paylor:

people's expectations, and, you know, doing what it feels other

Tristan Paylor:

people want it to do. It's good at looking after other people,

Tristan Paylor:

it is not a very selfish placement for the sun. No. But

Tristan Paylor:

at heart, the sun's still, like, you know, Kyle was saying it's

Tristan Paylor:

still does long to express its authentic self, and then it's

Tristan Paylor:

got Uranus kind of calling it towards freedom in a way where

Tristan Paylor:

you know, Uranus is, is, you know, always kind of saying

Tristan Paylor:

break free, of, of what limits or restricts you.

Kyle Pierce:

What's very tied into, like, your livelihood,

Kyle Pierce:

too, which is second house. Yeah, vacation.

Tristan Paylor:

And, yeah, it sounds like do something radical

Tristan Paylor:

and wild and free, you know, and that's a scary proposition,

Tristan Paylor:

especially these days, right to, like, pursue a livelihood that

Tristan Paylor:

feeds your soul as much as it pays the bills. Yeah, it's not

Tristan Paylor:

easy to do.

Kyle Pierce:

One. Yeah. And then the eighth house, too. I mean,

Kyle Pierce:

it's some of the themes, the eighth house is that there's a

Kyle Pierce:

scariness to it. And that, like there's an uncertainty, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, you can't quite see where you're going. The sun maybe

Kyle Pierce:

thinks it's moving up, make things it's moving towards the

Kyle Pierce:

ninth house. But it's actually being pulled back by you know,

Kyle Pierce:

diurnal motion and stuff. To the to the seventh, which was the

Kyle Pierce:

time isn't that bad of a place, I mean, I guess for the sun is

Kyle Pierce:

setting. But, you know, by like medieval standards, the sun is

Kyle Pierce:

what they call it in Hays, basically, like meets all the

Kyle Pierce:

conditions to make it be able to express itself fully. But it's

Kyle Pierce:

just in like, more tucked away house that, you know, is sort of

Kyle Pierce:

harder to reach from maybe the perspective of the first house.

Kyle Pierce:

But it does have this for the mitigating condition where the

Kyle Pierce:

midheaven is at about five degrees Scorpio, and the sun's

Kyle Pierce:

at two degrees Leo. And while the midheaven is very fast

Kyle Pierce:

moving, and it's kind of moving a little bit away from the sun,

Kyle Pierce:

it's like within that like three degree range, which is helpful

Kyle Pierce:

for the sun. It kind of gives it an outlet, an easier outlet to

Kyle Pierce:

express itself. Maybe not all about, you know, other people.

Kyle Pierce:

It's about, you know, what you want to do? And see the

Kyle Pierce:

midheaven is kind of like an aspirational point. Among other

Kyle Pierce:

things,

Tristan Paylor:

yeah. Like, what, what do you want to be

Tristan Paylor:

known for? Yeah, how do you want people to remember you? What

Tristan Paylor:

kind of story do you want people to tell when they tell your

Tristan Paylor:

story that's your midheaven is kind of caught up in all of

Tristan Paylor:

that. And it's ruled by Mars. It's interesting. The the 10th

Tristan Paylor:

house is ruled by Venus, and the midheaven is ruled by Mars. And

Tristan Paylor:

both of those planets are kind of squashed together in Gemini

Tristan Paylor:

in the sixth house. Yeah. And Mars in Gemini in the sixth

Tristan Paylor:

house, ruling the midheaven, which is associated with career,

Tristan Paylor:

it makes a ton of sense for someone who would be good at

Tristan Paylor:

engineering. Yeah, like Mars is a technician. You know, Mars is

Tristan Paylor:

a technician and in, you know, in Gemini to having that ability

Tristan Paylor:

to, you know, solve problems, and you know, it makes Mars a

Tristan Paylor:

little bit smarter. It's the Mars in Gemini in the sixth

Tristan Paylor:

house is very mechanical. It's very good at troubleshooting

Tristan Paylor:

problems. Oh, yeah. It's happy to do really demanding work. The

Tristan Paylor:

sixth house, and we know, Gemini in the sixth house, right? We

Tristan Paylor:

sure do. And he's very good at all this As I'm sure it would

Tristan Paylor:

make a good engineer, but I don't think it would make him

Tristan Paylor:

happy either. He'd

Unknown:

be good at it, but it wouldn't be makes furniture

Unknown:

furniture, right?

Tristan Paylor:

He does but not as not as a job. But yeah, that

Tristan Paylor:

is a skill he has he can he can build anything. Yeah. But yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

like in this the sixth house is in traditional astrology, the

Tristan Paylor:

house for Mars rejoices. This the sixth house is full of

Tristan Paylor:

crises and problems that need to be solved and missions that need

Tristan Paylor:

to be carried out services that need to be performed. And Mars

Tristan Paylor:

is like, yes, give me a mission give me problems to solve. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor:

and work to do. So Mars is happy there. You know, poor Venus is

Tristan Paylor:

also in there. And Venus is actually ruling the 10th house.

Tristan Paylor:

So like a similar, there's similar symbolism there having

Tristan Paylor:

to do with career and aspiration. And, you know, Venus

Tristan Paylor:

isn't necessarily the most comfortable in the sixth house,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, cuddling up to Mars, they're not like really closely

Tristan Paylor:

conjunct, but they're, you know, in the same sign in the same

Tristan Paylor:

house, close enough together, that they're having a

Tristan Paylor:

conversation. And since the sixth house is such a mercy

Tristan Paylor:

house already, it is kind of like Venus is is in Mars's house

Tristan Paylor:

a little bit. And like Mars is a soul temperate planet. Yeah. Who

Tristan Paylor:

is all about creativity and desire and joy? And all this

Tristan Paylor:

like troubleshooting and concerned with

Unknown:

healing and like helping people out? You know?

Unknown:

Yeah, we

Tristan Paylor:

have Venus in the sixth house is a good

Tristan Paylor:

placement for healing nurse or

Kyle Pierce:

medical technician is popping into my Sure.

Tristan Paylor:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a good

Tristan Paylor:

thought. That will put both Venus and Mars to work doing

Tristan Paylor:

some kind of healing work. Yeah, Marvel heal Mars and Mars? Well,

Tristan Paylor:

Mars is a good a good medic, because Mars is good at

Tristan Paylor:

responding to emergencies. And, you know, dealing with messes

Tristan Paylor:

and injuries cutting stuff out of your body. Should,

Kyle Pierce:

you know? You know, depends on what you want to do

Kyle Pierce:

with it.

Tristan Paylor:

But yeah, it's, it would be understandable for

Tristan Paylor:

Venus to maybe feel a bit stifled in this situation. You

Tristan Paylor:

know, Venus is is about what feeds your soul, and about what

Tristan Paylor:

brings you joy, and what brings you pleasure. So I think, you

Tristan Paylor:

know, it already sounds like you're, you're striving to find

Tristan Paylor:

a balance here, where you're certainly capable of doing the

Tristan Paylor:

Mars stuff, and you're capable of doing it as a career and

Tristan Paylor:

being known for it and being known for being good at it. But,

Tristan Paylor:

you know, it doesn't sound like it is feeding the Venus part of

Tristan Paylor:

you. That that needs to find meaning and joy. You know, Mars,

Tristan Paylor:

Mars is just like, just give me something to do just give me

Tristan Paylor:

something to take action on Venus needs like a meaning

Tristan Paylor:

behind what what she does, yeah. And Venus is is less about work

Tristan Paylor:

and more about pleasure and relaxation and recreation. And

Tristan Paylor:

you know, Venus can be very helpful when applied to

Tristan Paylor:

livelihood or career because, you know, Venus has a healing

Tristan Paylor:

touch. Venus is good with people. Venus is great with the

Tristan Paylor:

arts, with music, with visual arts, with performance with all

Tristan Paylor:

that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day for Venus isn't

Tristan Paylor:

so much about meeting the career goal as it is about feeding her

Tristan Paylor:

soul. Yeah. So you know, I can, I can see that kind of that

Tristan Paylor:

tension taking place in this chart. And, you know, I wish I

Tristan Paylor:

had more sort of practical advice on on how to resolve that

Tristan Paylor:

tension. I mean, I guess maybe, I don't know, it sounds like you

Tristan Paylor:

might, Kyle.

Kyle Pierce:

I see, there's a lot of like, I don't know,

Kyle Pierce:

there's there's something coming together in my mind. And I

Kyle Pierce:

guess, I mean, it's going to kind of boil down to the same

Kyle Pierce:

thing. But you know, what Venus and Mars want to do are going to

Kyle Pierce:

be good at or it's going to be revealed a little bit by

Kyle Pierce:

Mercury, you know, Mercury is in the eighth house in Leo, but

Kyle Pierce:

it's also with the sun. So, I mean, Mercury's actually pretty

Kyle Pierce:

strong in the sense that it is with a very, you know, dignified

Kyle Pierce:

sun. And it's also wasn't making a helical rising. Yeah, it might

Kyle Pierce:

be in three fast moving. It's basically it's right at that

Kyle Pierce:

point, like right where this mercury is about to emerge from

Kyle Pierce:

the beams. So it's like about to emerge merge from the beams of

Kyle Pierce:

the Sun, which means like, it's about to be visible, it's about

Kyle Pierce:

to no longer be hidden by the light of the sun. Now in the

Kyle Pierce:

house, it's gonna be you know, tends to be a little less

Kyle Pierce:

prominent and will less about like, look at me on Mercury. If

Kyle Pierce:

you're like, there's a theme of, man, there's so much you could

Kyle Pierce:

do with this, like, my mind is no therapy, like consulting work

Kyle Pierce:

or investment, if you want to do it, it's like you have, like,

Kyle Pierce:

I'm assuming you have great credit, I'm just I feel

Kyle Pierce:

confident about that I, you know, you never know for sure.

Kyle Pierce:

But like, the eighth house, like a well set up eighth house can

Kyle Pierce:

be really good for, for investments, you know, if you

Kyle Pierce:

like, you could mean you can, like, get yourself, it's the

Kyle Pierce:

thing is, I think that maybe for you, Jessica, you know, security

Kyle Pierce:

is gonna be really important, you know, you're maybe not going

Kyle Pierce:

to want to, like venture off and pursue a dream, until you have,

Kyle Pierce:

like, a certain amount of security maybe established would

Kyle Pierce:

be my educated guess. But that seems like pretty within reach.

Kyle Pierce:

And you also have, like, I don't know, a lot of certifications

Kyle Pierce:

for just like being willing to work your ass off. And I think a

Kyle Pierce:

lot of people who have like big ideas and big dreams, and no one

Kyle Pierce:

in particular. But the the willingness to do that long,

Kyle Pierce:

hard grinding work that, you know, takes a long time to

Kyle Pierce:

accomplish, to without maybe really immediate results. Not

Kyle Pierce:

everybody has that, within easy access. I see that like, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, the resources internally and possibly externally are

Kyle Pierce:

there for you to you know, pursue something, I think the

Kyle Pierce:

hard part is figuring it out. And, you know, the Moon in

Kyle Pierce:

Scorpio in the 11th house kind of goes along with this theme of

Kyle Pierce:

you know, you get like dreams in the 11th house. And the Moon in

Kyle Pierce:

Scorpio tends to be a little uncertain, a little fearful,

Kyle Pierce:

you're afraid of being you know, exposed being seen, it's very in

Kyle Pierce:

a very visible position actually is very close to the the

Kyle Pierce:

midheaven. But that can be uncomfortable for a Scorpio

Kyle Pierce:

moon. So that's kind of like the big struggle. One of the big

Kyle Pierce:

struggles. There are numerous ones but

Tristan Paylor:

can be one fellow Scorpio moon yeah.

Kyle Pierce:

Is the the you know, the visibility, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

if you want it, but it's really scary. Yeah, I mean, I guess my

Kyle Pierce:

practical advice is, if you already know what you want to

Kyle Pierce:

do, don't assume that, like, it's impossible, I don't know, I

Kyle Pierce:

would say that you have assets, you have skills, like I don't

Kyle Pierce:

know, like, this is like the, like the chart of somebody who

Kyle Pierce:

like, I don't know, a story of, I mean, I see the engineer that

Kyle Pierce:

doesn't like their job, but I also see like the, the person

Kyle Pierce:

that, you know, figured out that they didn't like what they were

Kyle Pierce:

doing, but like us the situation that they were in, to crawl out

Kyle Pierce:

of it, it's kind of easy to get yourself trapped in, like the

Kyle Pierce:

golden handcuffs, you know, the job that pays really well, but,

Kyle Pierce:

but it's a little soul sucking. But it's nice when that job pays

Kyle Pierce:

well enough for you to to save and, you know, plan your escape,

Kyle Pierce:

I think maybe the trouble is figuring out where you're trying

Kyle Pierce:

to escape to.

Tristan Paylor:

And also just, you know, having that kind of

Tristan Paylor:

patience, because the Escape Plan, you know, might be long

Tristan Paylor:

term. Yeah, you know, just looking at Saturn ruled chart.

Tristan Paylor:

And, you know, having to I mean, the, the wonderful thing about

Tristan Paylor:

being Saturn ruled is the gifts of resourcefulness that Saturn

Tristan Paylor:

gives. Like, I think the way Kyle just put it was really

Tristan Paylor:

nice. Were like, you know, you're able to use a situation

Tristan Paylor:

that isn't ideal in order to get yourself into a situation that

Tristan Paylor:

is that is Saturn's, like, one of Saturn's greatest gifts. Oh,

Tristan Paylor:

yeah, he grants us is, here's a shitty situation. And here's how

Tristan Paylor:

you can use that exact situation to get yourself into a better

Tristan Paylor:

one. So you know, that is definitely something I also see

Tristan Paylor:

with this chart.

Kyle Pierce:

One of my favorite Saturn in Aries stories is

Kyle Pierce:

Douglas MacArthur, who had Saturn in Aries of leave on his

Kyle Pierce:

midheaven in the ninth house. So he was uh, one of the famous

Kyle Pierce:

generals who's responsible for like the Pacific Theater, but

Kyle Pierce:

more or less responsible for all the land campaigns and, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, that part of World War Two, kind of leading the army to

Kyle Pierce:

defeat the Japanese and he's kind of a controversial figure.

Kyle Pierce:

But there's something about Saturn and Aries that

Kyle Pierce:

hardscrabble. It's the word that comes to my mind, something

Kyle Pierce:

about like, you know, once it knows what its mission is, what

Kyle Pierce:

its direction is, then it can grind on into eternity. Until

Kyle Pierce:

Until the mission is accomplished.

Tristan Paylor:

That's a very good way of putting it

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah, it but I think maybe the probably the

Kyle Pierce:

promise it's like, you know, when other people are expecting

Kyle Pierce:

things from you, you know, like, oh, okay, I'll do that, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, you're doing it out of fear of failing, of failing,

Kyle Pierce:

letting other people down. But you know, maybe more of a

Kyle Pierce:

struggle to find your own authority be find, like your own

Kyle Pierce:

dream that you want to pursue. That's valid and okay. And that,

Kyle Pierce:

you know, maybe not meeting other people's expectations of

Kyle Pierce:

what you should be doing is not the end of the world. Maybe the

Kyle Pierce:

willingness to go against other people's expectations, you know,

Kyle Pierce:

can be a point of pride.

Tristan Paylor:

Well, I think you've said everything I was

Tristan Paylor:

thinking. Sorry, no, no, it's good. You said it better than I

Tristan Paylor:

could. So

Kyle Pierce:

it's rare. Yeah, well, you know, yeah, I hope I

Kyle Pierce:

hope that's helpful. Jessica. I mean, I guess, definitely

Kyle Pierce:

answered your question. And you weren't necessarily asking for

Kyle Pierce:

advice. But it does show up in your chart. But I would say that

Kyle Pierce:

I don't see you locked in, in that situation for the rest of

Kyle Pierce:

your life, by any means. It's actually interesting. You're in

Kyle Pierce:

a second house perfection year. But that's also which means

Kyle Pierce:

like, the second house is activated. So concerns about

Kyle Pierce:

money, livelihood, how you're making money, but the Fifth

Kyle Pierce:

house is also activated. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. So like,

Kyle Pierce:

how can I make money doing something that I love that I

Kyle Pierce:

enjoy? That is fun. And, yeah, that mean, the struggle is the

Kyle Pierce:

struggle is real. I believe you. But you know, that struggle can

Kyle Pierce:

be directed constructively. I think you'll figure it out.

Kyle Pierce:

Well, yeah, anything you want to address them?

Tristan Paylor:

Now. You've you've said everything I was

Tristan Paylor:

thinking basically. And all the all the advice they would give

Tristan Paylor:

without knowing more. Yeah, about other you know, possible

Tristan Paylor:

areas of interest are things that that you've already tried

Tristan Paylor:

and stuff like that.

Kyle Pierce:

Yeah. Yeah. dialogue for that. But yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

like we will wrap up the show for today. Anything. Any any

Kyle Pierce:

good news? Any cool stories to tell?

Tristan Paylor:

Well, I will do I will first. I will first thank

Tristan Paylor:

our wonderful listeners for their questions. Thank you,

Tristan Paylor:

Haley for that great question about Pluto. And thank you so

Tristan Paylor:

much, Jessica, for sharing your chart with us. And, you know, I

Tristan Paylor:

that's a sticky situation. And I hope you I wish you all the best

Tristan Paylor:

and I hope you find what gives your soul joy. In terms of what

Tristan Paylor:

I have going on, I am taking natal chart readings, as well as

Tristan Paylor:

synastry readings over zoom. You can book with me by visiting my

Tristan Paylor:

website at bad sign astrology.ca. So I could do

Tristan Paylor:

natal chart consultations. I can do synastry consultations and I

Tristan Paylor:

can look at your transits and perfections and stuff that are

Tristan Paylor:

coming up. And I am also on social media on Instagram and

Tristan Paylor:

Tumblr at bad sign astrology. I've been working on quite a bit

Tristan Paylor:

of writing on my blog, bad sign astrology on Tumblr. I have seen

Tristan Paylor:

some

Kyle Pierce:

really good writing lately. Thank you like really

Kyle Pierce:

impressed.

Tristan Paylor:

I've been slowly but surely working on a series

Tristan Paylor:

about the planets. I have just finished Venus. Last week I've

Tristan Paylor:

only got two planets left. So I write about you know a little

Tristan Paylor:

bit about the planets significations throughout the

Tristan Paylor:

history of astrology starting with Hellenistic all the way up

Tristan Paylor:

to modern and then I you know write a bit about how I use

Tristan Paylor:

those planets and interpret them in my own practice. And I

Tristan Paylor:

recently put up a piece on the houses just a beginner's guide

Tristan Paylor:

to the houses and astrology that includes links to more free

Tristan Paylor:

resources. So if you're learning astrology, I have some of those

Tristan Paylor:

teaching resources up and available for you on my blog.

Kyle Pierce:

One thing to know about me is I cannot bullshit a

Kyle Pierce:

compliment. And I would highly recommend for instance blog.

Kyle Pierce:

It's really good, especially if you're like just starting out,

Kyle Pierce:

learning about significations of the houses and planets. It's

Kyle Pierce:

really good and like easy to understand. Like it's not just

Kyle Pierce:

all straw straw,

Tristan Paylor:

Astro jargon

Kyle Pierce:

lingo Astro jargon Yeah, it's not all Astro jargon.

Kyle Pierce:

As for me I still offering Birth Chart consultations. The window

Kyle Pierce:

on the donation based readings are closing you know I'm gonna

Kyle Pierce:

maintain that offering and you know, it's much it's it's For

Kyle Pierce:

all your lovely listeners and people out there, I also it's an

Kyle Pierce:

offering to Mars and Saturn because, you know, they're in

Kyle Pierce:

my, my fifth and eighth house and I feel like I have to you

Kyle Pierce:

know, working with that square, I've had a lot of energy to work

Kyle Pierce:

on passion projects. But I think I'm realizing that that, you

Kyle Pierce:

know, they're not necessarily gonna get away with doing things

Kyle Pierce:

that are just for me, you know, I don't know, like I have to

Kyle Pierce:

give an offering to the I'm not gonna break that down. But yeah,

Kyle Pierce:

it's my my offering so you know, my website, Kyle Pierce.

Kyle Pierce:

astrology.com. You can go there. A greeting. Yeah. That's it

Kyle Pierce:

right now. Yeah, thank every thank you everyone for

Kyle Pierce:

listening. Thank you for your question. Haley. That was fun

Kyle Pierce:

diving into Pluto. Best of luck to you, Jessica.

Tristan Paylor:

For now, bye for now.

Kyle Pierce:

If you have a question you would like to hear

Kyle Pierce:

answered on astrology hotline. Shoot us an email with your

Kyle Pierce:

question and your birth card info at astrology hotline

Kyle Pierce:

pod@gmail.com.

Kyle Pierce:

Potential astrology hotline is at war at war on answered

Kyle Pierce:

astrology questions. We have the weapons. We have the training,

Kyle Pierce:

but to achieve ultimate victory. We need your help. I want you to

Kyle Pierce:

take out your phone. Open up Apple podcasts. Subscribe to

Kyle Pierce:

astrology hotline. crush all five stars and rain down a

Kyle Pierce:

righteous Ruby with furious satisfaction. I want you to open

Kyle Pierce:

up Spotify. Subscribe to astrology hotline and launch one

Kyle Pierce:

high speed film of flaming death at that five star rating. And I

Kyle Pierce:

want you to find the gnarliest most insidious astrology

Kyle Pierce:

question you can find. Email it to astrology hotline

Kyle Pierce:

pod@gmail.com So we have slaughtered mercilessly on the

Kyle Pierce:

show. Together. We can conquer astrology one question at a

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About the Podcast

Astrology Hotline
The Podcast that Answers All Your Burning Birth Chart and Astrology Questions
Astrology Hotline is the podcast that answers all your burning birth chart and astrology questions. Hosted by astrologer Kyle Pierce, the show provides an open forum for listeners to have their questions answered and facilitate discussions about a broad range of topics with guests including some of astrology's most up-and-coming astrologers. Whatever it is that has you stumped when it comes to astrology or your birth chart, Astrology Hotline is here to get you the answers your looking for. Send us your questions at astrologyhotlinepod@gmail.com.

About your host

Profile picture for Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce is a Professional Astrologer with an inclusive approach based primarily on Hellenistic techniques. He lives in Michigan.