The Aspects in Astrology Part 1 - Astrology Hotline

Episode 21

The Aspects I - Astrology 101

Published on: 24th May, 2022

You've waited patiently, and now the final installment of the Astrology 101 mega-series has arrived. Astrologer Ada Pembroke joined Tristan and I for a thorough treatment of the meaning and use of aspects in astrology. We began with an overview and definition of what the aspects are, what they represent, and the basis for interpreting their meaning, continuing on with more focused attention of the nature and meaning of the Sextile. Stay tuned for the other 4 Ptolemaic aspects - the Trine, Square, Opposition and Conjunction - as well as some of the other ways planets and signs can have relationships with each other.

Birth charts used in this episode

Article on Aspects in Medieval Astrology (includes info on orbs)

Ada Pembroke: Astrology Readings - Patreon

https://www.adapembroke.com/

Tristan Paylor: Instagram

https://badsignastrology.ca

Kyle Pierce: Consultations - Ko-Fi Donations - Instagram

https://kylepierceastrologer.com

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Transcript
Kyle:

Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast

Kyle:

where we answer all your burning birth chart and astrology

Kyle:

questions. We are going to be finishing off our astrology one

Kyle:

on one series with a discussion on the aspects. And joining us

Kyle:

for that discussion is Ada Pembroke. Welcome ADA.

Tristan:

Welcome to the show ADA.

Ada:

Hi, thank you for having me.

Kyle:

Our pleasure. So you just for the listeners who maybe

Kyle:

aren't familiar with your work lunch, tell us a little bit

Kyle:

about yourself what you do.

Ada:

Thank you. So my background is evolutionary astrology I was

Ada:

mentored by one of Stephen Forest students. And in recent

Ada:

years, I have been expanding into incorporating traditional

Ada:

techniques into my otherwise modern practice, I would say at

Ada:

this point I am. I'm pretty 5050 evolutionary and traditional. I

Ada:

can kind of speak both languages. My specialty is

Ada:

helping people to understand the stories that they're telling

Ada:

about their lives and use astrology to reframe them and

Ada:

rewrite their life stories into something that they find more

Ada:

satisfying.

Tristan:

I love that. That's a great use of astrology.

Kyle:

Thank you. So love that I know. I was really drawn to. I

Kyle:

know you talked about like a narrative astrology. Yes. Which

Kyle:

like I love that just as like a term or category because like, I

Kyle:

like to frame things around that it's just like, didn't have

Kyle:

that, like that word narrative. Like, it's like, yeah, this is

Kyle:

like, how do you reframe the story that you're telling

Kyle:

yourself and that the story is describing? And like that's ends

Kyle:

up being you know, how I approach charts as well. I love

Kyle:

that. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on.

Ada:

I'm so happy to be here.

Kyle:

So I don't have any pre loaded banter for us. Chatting,

Kyle:

plenty before the show. So do we want to just like dive headfirst

Kyle:

into into the, the curriculum,

Tristan:

if you will? Yeah, let's do it. So this is part of

Tristan:

our 101 series, we're finally tackling the aspects. And I

Tristan:

guess the time coming a long time coming, it's the starting

Tristan:

point, as always, is to define what the aspects are. And they

Tristan:

are geometrical relationships between points and a chart. So

Tristan:

they're all different ways of dividing a circle, essentially,

Tristan:

since the birth chart is a two dimensional model of a three

Tristan:

dimensional world, you just see a great big circle and the

Tristan:

aspects divide the circle in various ways. And they create

Tristan:

polygons, depending on how the circle is divided. So you know,

Tristan:

you have the square, which is 90 degrees apart, two objects that

Tristan:

are 90 degrees apart, if you have four objects that are all

Tristan:

90 degrees apart on a circle, you see a great big square. So

Tristan:

that's kind of the it's it's some simple math. But what these

Tristan:

geometrical relationships allow us to do is get a sense of the

Tristan:

kinds of conversations that planets and points are having in

Tristan:

a chart. It allows planets to have an effect on one another

Tristan:

and allows planets to have an effect on angles in a chart and,

Tristan:

and that sort of thing. And the kind of aspect that's happening

Tristan:

tells you something about the quality of that conversation. Is

Tristan:

it tense? Is it pleasant? In the case of a conjunction? Is it

Tristan:

like it complete union of two or more forces that are just sort

Tristan:

of blended into one thing? Yeah, so I think that's, you know,

Tristan:

basically what aspects are if there's anything I've left out,

Tristan:

please, Ada and Kyle jump in. And

Ada:

I love how you're framing it in terms of conversations,

Ada:

you know, my my narrative thing, as soon as you say that I hear

Ada:

dialogue, and I'm like, yes. Is this where the action comes in?

Tristan:

Yeah, it really is kind of where the action comes

Tristan:

in. You've got like, with the signs and the houses, you've

Tristan:

kind of got like the stages set. Everyone is in the place where

Tristan:

they're supposed to be, but they're not really doing

Tristan:

anything until they're actually interacting with each other. And

Tristan:

then you've got like, the action and dynamism and everything. So

Tristan:

kind of the aspects are on the chart to life

Ada:

alliances and intrigue.

Tristan:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's where all the juices.

Kyle:

Yeah. And actually, we'll continue with that analogy,

Kyle:

because I know we've been kind of using that sort of movie

Kyle:

analogy or that stage analogy. Think of like the would we say

Kyle:

the, the like, the sign is kind of like the, the genre of the

Kyle:

movie, maybe? Like the costume is sort of like the flavor, you

Kyle:

know, the house is like the scene, sort of like the the

Kyle:

scene in the movie or like what's happening, you know, the

Kyle:

aspects do they give it like plot, they give the actors a

Kyle:

plot, that's the dialogue between the actors on the stage.

Kyle:

And I think really, you could probably sum up aspects, most

Kyle:

simply is just describing as the relationships between planets.

Kyle:

And the nature of the aspect, like the, the geometrical

Kyle:

pattern is like, one of the sort of keys to finding the flavor of

Kyle:

that interaction. But then there's like, a lot of other

Kyle:

levels to that interaction that hopefully, in this set of

Kyle:

episodes, we can maybe reveal some of the nuance in the way

Kyle:

planets interact with each other. While we're talking about

Kyle:

the aspects, I think it's kind of the the goal, because the

Kyle:

trying, you know, isn't always happy fun times, you know, in a

Kyle:

square isn't always super tense, difficult, or negative

Kyle:

situation, just depending on the other layers of that

Kyle:

relationship.

Tristan:

Definitely, it gets, it gets complicated, but we'll

Tristan:

try to stay simple for now. Because, you know, I mean, for

Tristan:

if we're talking about relationships between planets,

Tristan:

just like relationships between people, it's never as

Tristan:

straightforward as you will and simple as you'd like it to be. I

Tristan:

do want to get to the complicated part. You're, you're

Tristan:

good at the complicated stuff, you're good at layers, just sort

Tristan:

of holding layers and layers of information in your brain

Tristan:

simultaneously and making sense of them, which is the quality

Tristan:

that's very beneficial for an astrologer.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's good to have the be able to do the basic part

Kyle:

though, too, you gotta like butter, butter up the bread

Kyle:

before you put on all the ingredients.

Tristan:

So I do want to mention, something important to

Tristan:

know about aspects is that they happen when signs share

Tristan:

qualities in common. So for example, in the case of a Trine

Tristan:

when, say, two planets are 120 degrees apart, vast majority of

Tristan:

the time, if they're 120 degrees apart, which creates a Trine

Tristan:

they will be in the same element. So Pisces and Cancer,

Tristan:

for example, both water signs, and they try and one another.

Tristan:

And so they they have a relationship, they have some

Tristan:

sort of common ground upon which to base a dialogue. There's some

Tristan:

understanding there because they're in signs of the same

Tristan:

element. And with squares, you have signs of the same mode, and

Tristan:

so on. So every single one of the traditional aspects,

Tristan:

conjunction, opposition square sextile, and try and there's

Tristan:

some quality one or more qualities that the signs making

Tristan:

that aspect to each other share in common. And without that

Tristan:

there isn't really a basis for communication. It's like if an

Tristan:

alien visited Earth, and tried to talk to you, and they're

Tristan:

like, you're a carbon based life form, they're silicone based

Tristan:

life form, like they communicate, but in a way that

Tristan:

doesn't use language, and we're bound by language. And it's just

Tristan:

like, imagine, you know, there's just no, there's nothing in

Tristan:

common on which to base the dialogue, it becomes really

Tristan:

difficult to have a relationship. And so when that

Tristan:

happens, when signs don't share any qualities in common, they

Tristan:

don't make a major aspect to each other and add that

Tristan:

condition is called aversion. So, you know, as an example, the

Tristan:

sign of Gemini is an Air sign, it's diurnal polarity, it is

Tristan:

mutable. And the sign of cancer has absolutely none of those

Tristan:

three things in common. So Gemini and Cancer are in

Tristan:

aversion. They don't make an aspect to each other. And that

Tristan:

condition is important in interpretation, astrology,

Tristan:

because you can see where things are just sort of not seeing eye

Tristan:

to eye where there isn't a connection. And some astrologers

Tristan:

use what are called minor aspects, which are different

Tristan:

ways of dividing the circle between signs that don't have

Tristan:

those qualities in common. So we probably won't get too deep into

Tristan:

those today, because we don't want to complicate stuff too

Tristan:

much. But I know, Ada, we were talking about a bit about minor

Tristan:

aspects before we started recording, and there's one that

Tristan:

you work with and the way you described it, I felt really was

Tristan:

really cool, and also is a really good way of describing

Tristan:

the condition of aversion in general. So I don't know if you

Tristan:

want to talk a bit about that.

Ada:

Yeah, absolutely. So I work with Quinn Cox's and Quinn Cox's

Ada:

have a really interesting Relationship with modern

Ada:

astrology. Of course, there are modern astrologers who work with

Ada:

all of the minor aspects. But the school of astrology that I

Ada:

was brought up in, so to speak, only used the same aspects that

Ada:

traditional astrologers use the five Ptolemaic Ptolemaic

Ada:

aspects. But people in the community kept on tripping over

Ada:

Quinn compasses. And so finally, it there was just this growing

Ada:

consensus that we needed to work with quincunx is because they

Ada:

kept on getting people in trouble. And that's a pretty

Ada:

good description of what quincunx is our Quinn Cox's are

Ada:

when you have two planets that are like, it's almost like a

Ada:

broken opposition, they would be opposed to each other, except

Ada:

that they're one sign over. So it's like this, this, this

Ada:

really weird, discordant note. And I love what you said about

Ada:

aliens trying to communicate because I feel like that's a

Ada:

really good way of understanding quincunx is imagine if you've

Ada:

got this silicon based life form, and this human who are put

Ada:

in a ship that is crashing into the earth, and they somehow have

Ada:

to figure out how to work together to keep the ship from

Ada:

crashing. That is a quincunx, they have nothing in common.

Ada:

They can't communicate, they have no common frame of

Ada:

reference. And yet, if you can't get them to work together,

Ada:

you're going to be in serious trouble.

Kyle:

get really creative to find a way to absolutely, that's

Kyle:

yeah, that's how I was just thinking about the movie Close

Kyle:

Encounters of the Third Kind, where, like, the alien ship is

Kyle:

like there on earth, and a lot of times to see the movie, but

Kyle:

that sort of famous scene where they like start communicating

Kyle:

through music, it's like finding that connection. Because Struzan

Kyle:

was already describing the, the aspects are based off of those

Kyle:

geometrical relationships between the signs. And we'll

Kyle:

probably get more into detail later about the sort of the

Kyle:

degree based aspect and out of sine aspects and that sort of

Kyle:

thing. But you can get a lot about looking at the way signs

Kyle:

that are in that aspect with each other sort of Jive or don't

Kyle:

jive. Right. But we talked a bit about this. Previously, a couple

Kyle:

weeks ago, you know, before we were recording the, it was

Kyle:

telling us about quincunx is and it like really got me like

Kyle:

thinking about it. And it's they make a lot more sense to me now

Kyle:

than they did before. Especially because I love you know, I can't

Kyle:

just take tradition, you know, I can't just accept traditions.

Tristan:

Absolutely not, that's not what we're about here.

Kyle:

But there's actually a lot of basis for it in other

Kyle:

systems of astrology as well that are also very old if you

Kyle:

need that. But I have a moon Venus quincunx that like got me

Kyle:

like thinking I was like, huh, I can see how Venus in the moon

Kyle:

totally stumble over each other in my life zones like the I

Kyle:

don't know, I can be very awkward about expressing

Kyle:

affection to other people sometimes or feel very awkward

Kyle:

about it. Sometimes, affection will feel like an alien language

Kyle:

to me sometimes, depending on the circumstances. Not that I'm

Kyle:

totally unaffected, but

Tristan:

pretty, it's pretty

Kyle:

was what is it? I actually ended up for the first

Kyle:

time in a long time and just like looking up an aspect, like

Kyle:

I used to do when I was first learning astrology. I was like,

Kyle:

What is Moon Venus? And I was like, Oh, wow. Because it's like

Kyle:

talking about, you know, communicating needs in like,

Kyle:

it's like, oh, yeah, I've had to work on that. You guys. Yeah.

Kyle:

Well, you both have quincunx as well.

Ada:

I have a moon necessary not Moon mercury, Saturn quincunx

Ada:

which is very interesting, because on the whole, you're

Ada:

right that there is nothing that couldn't cause planets have in

Ada:

common but there's this rare situation where if you have a

Ada:

quincunx between Scorpio and Aries or Taurus and Libra, they

Ada:

actually share a rulership. So I have that, you know, highly

Ada:

disciplined tripping over Mercury needing to say the first

Ada:

thing that comes to mind saying that they have Mars in common.

Ada:

So I have this really weird situation where or I have to

Ada:

work really hard to get them to work together when I'm

Ada:

communicating, except for when I'm angry. And as soon as I'm

Ada:

angry, I get incredibly eloquent. Out of nowhere. I have

Ada:

actually been in relationships where people are like, how do I

Ada:

get you more angry so that you actually

Tristan:

can and that's the opposite problem. I kind of want

Tristan:

to make a note of this maybe something. Yeah, I also have the

Tristan:

opposite problem. If I'm angry, I just cry and leave. Not a

Tristan:

good, angry communicator. Typically, I'm a typical cancer,

Tristan:

I just get overwhelmed. And I'm like, I'm gonna go be alone for

Tristan:

a while and cry. And when I'm not angry anymore than we can

Tristan:

continue this conversation.

Ada:

Mars in Gemini too. Yeah, I

Ada:

do.

Ada:

Angry communication. I live with Oh, my goodness, I am so sorry.

Tristan:

I mean, it's, it's fine. Because in the case of my

Tristan:

partner, the anger is usually directed at like people who are

Tristan:

very much not me. Like people not wearing masks in public,

Tristan:

like that kind of thing. That's where the Mars and Gemini comes

Tristan:

out. And he can really go the other one is the dog. And I

Tristan:

don't know what the dog is saying. So I have nothing to be

Tristan:

upset about. I just know he's angry. And he's generally also

Tristan:

angry at other dogs not at humans. So like the Mars and

Tristan:

Gemini is never directed at me, so it's fine. So you can just I

Tristan:

can see it. It's just Yeah, exactly. I can just watch as the

Tristan:

world unravels around me.

Kyle:

Here Mars is are very good at getting angry at like

Kyle:

abstract concepts or at humanity in general. But it's it tends to

Kyle:

not be is directed at specific people. Oh, yeah,

Ada:

you should hear me rant about capitalism. I mean, what?

Ada:

I've got the Moon and Jupiter in Aquarius, too. So like

Ada:

everything is this like society wide systemic problem, and I

Ada:

will tell you all about it.

Kyle:

Oh, I got Mars in Aquarius. Yes. Good. We could we

Kyle:

could have an episode of just ranting about politics. Yeah.

Tristan:

Well, now we have so that we have two things I want

Tristan:

to table one is maybe when we're done going over the basics of

Tristan:

aspects, we might want to talk about the ways that planets in a

Tristan:

version can actually have weird relationships like when they

Tristan:

share a ruler, and also a podcast episode featuring just

Tristan:

people with air Mars placements.

Ada:

Oh my god, you be the most chaotic.

Tristan:

We have. We have Barney, who is our guest for the

Tristan:

signs episodes who can come on who has Mars in Aquarius? So I

Tristan:

think the three of you can just rant about society together. And

Tristan:

it will be like an astrological case study. It's like being a

Tristan:

field biologist of astrology. You can just observe the air

Tristan:

Mars people in their natural habitat.

Ada:

Oh my goodness, I love this.

Kyle:

I am glad this is recorded because now I can't

Kyle:

forget it. Exactly. We need to hunt down on Mars and Libra. For

Kyle:

sure.

Tristan:

So back to the

Kyle:

Oh, yeah. No, I definitely really do want to

Kyle:

talk about something it's very important to get the basics

Kyle:

covered before we dig into the that we've already done it a

Kyle:

little bit but into the ways that signs planets in different

Kyle:

signs that are in a version can interact with each other because

Kyle:

they can and they do. And there's lots of ways that they

Kyle:

can do that. It's actually where you get some really interesting

Kyle:

stuff. But we'll table that table it for now stick with the

Kyle:

basics, even though we ended up kind of starting with Quinn

Kyle:

Cox's

Tristan:

I kind of I wanted people to be familiar so that

Tristan:

the aspects we're going over today are you know, as I've

Tristan:

mentioned that they're called the major aspects. You'll hear

Tristan:

them called traditional aspects you'll hear them called the

Tristan:

Ptolemaic aspects. I think Aida, you mentioned the term

Tristan:

Ptolemaic. These are all different ways of describing the

Tristan:

five aspects that have been used throughout the history of

Tristan:

Western astrology from the time of Hellenistic astrology, the

Tristan:

conjunction, the opposition, the square, the Trine and the

Tristan:

sextile. But obviously, you know, if you're new to

Tristan:

astrology, and you're looking at your chart, even if you look it

Tristan:

up on astro.com, you're gonna see all kinds of weird symbols

Tristan:

for minor aspects as well. So we're not covering those in

Tristan:

detail, something to be aware of, if you're new to astrology,

Tristan:

that they do exist, and they are part of astrology is proud

Tristan:

tradition of complicating things even further. Thank you. Every

Tristan:

pass, it was Yeah, Kepler decided that everything in

Tristan:

astrology should be about math and introduced us to the minor

Tristan:

aspects. So thank you for that Johan can Fleur?

Ada:

I hate Yeah, the massification of everything is

Ada:

just like, No, I can't do this. And

Tristan:

and that's what I love about the the traditional

Tristan:

aspects is that they are just based on these. They're

Tristan:

mathematical relationships. But they're also based on things

Tristan:

that are not mathematical like relationships between signs of

Tristan:

the same element or signs of the same mode, it's a little easier

Tristan:

to wrap your head around that than all the numerology, it's

Tristan:

easy for me to understand why two planets and fire signs would

Tristan:

understand each other than it is for me to understand like, oh,

Tristan:

there, you know, 120 degrees apart. And that means something

Tristan:

whereas they're both in fire signs, that definitely means

Tristan:

something to me.

Ada:

My favorite story for how to understand why some signs are

Ada:

able to relate to each other in some signs or not, is that this

Ada:

isn't an ancient story. I think it's from the Hellenistic

Ada:

period. You imagine the signs as all being people who are sitting

Ada:

at a round table, and the signs that are next to each other

Ada:

don't have a relationship, because if you're sitting at a

Ada:

round table that's packed enough, you have to really crane

Ada:

your head to see the people who you're directly sitting, right.

Ada:

And the people who are quincunx are often difficult to see

Ada:

because it's at this really weird angle. So if you can kind

Ada:

of imagine yourself sitting in a sign and looking around, it

Ada:

gives you a better idea of like, why some signs relate to each

Ada:

other easily. And some signs don't.

Tristan:

It makes a lot of sense. And I guess the I mean,

Tristan:

so the funny thing about the conjunction is that it wasn't

Tristan:

considered an aspect because originally, you know, the term

Tristan:

aspect refers to like seeing one another and a conjunction is

Tristan:

actually blending, you're not looking at each other, you've

Tristan:

become one. But for you know, simplification, we just call it

Tristan:

an aspect and number at among the other kinds of relationships

Tristan:

planets have, but I guess, if you're using the dinner table,

Tristan:

like the round table, image, then a conjunction is literally

Tristan:

you're sitting on that person's lap, you know, you're not

Tristan:

sitting next to each other, you're on each other.

Kyle:

Either you become one or you're uncomfortably sandwiched

Kyle:

in the back of a very small car together, or you're talking over

Kyle:

each other.

Tristan:

I think that's a really, that's a really great

Tristan:

visual. And I think we'll probably make more use of that

Tristan:

as we go and explain the aspects. I do want to mention.

Tristan:

So I've mentioned how aspects are mathematical relationships.

Tristan:

And so when you're looking at aspects, you know, if you're

Tristan:

looking up your chart on astro.com, you'll see numbers,

Tristan:

you'll see numbers with degree symbols next to them. And you

Tristan:

know, those indicate if you're looking at a planet and the

Tristan:

planet, you know, says it's at one degree of Gemini that tells

Tristan:

you of the sort of 30 degrees that are allotted to Gemini out

Tristan:

of this 360 degree circle. Your planet is that the first one.

Tristan:

And so the degree that a planet is at also comes into play when

Tristan:

you're looking at aspects. So if one planet is in Leo, and

Tristan:

another planet is in Aries, they're both in fire signs

Tristan:

they're trying. But if the one planet is at 15 degrees of Leo,

Tristan:

and the other planet is at 15 degrees of Aries, that's a

Tristan:

really, really, really close Trine by degree. So you may run

Tristan:

into terms like whole signs, and whole sign aspects versus degree

Tristan:

based aspects. So if two planets, I know that Kyle and I,

Tristan:

we use this sort of Hellenistic approach to aspects where as

Tristan:

long as two planets or points are in signs that aspect each

Tristan:

other regardless of what degree they're in, they're an aspect so

Tristan:

if you've got planets at one degree of Gemini and a planet of

Tristan:

29 degrees Aquarius, even though they're really far apart by

Tristan:

degree, they're both in air signs, so they're still in a

Tristan:

Trine Bible sign. But if they're closer by degree, it just sort

Tristan:

of amps up the intensity. And it's sort of like the chart is

Tristan:

putting an exclamation point on this aspect that like, these two

Tristan:

are really engaged with each other and whatever is indicated

Tristan:

by their relationship is extra important. So really pay

Tristan:

attention to those ones that are close by degree.

Kyle:

Could be how I approach if you tend to approach it

Kyle:

similarly or do you have a kind of a different way?

Ada:

That's absolutely how I approach it that's actually

Ada:

canonical for evolutionary astrology, at least as as

Ada:

Stephen forest teaches it. The way that I was taught to work

Ada:

with them is that planets that are making an aspect by sign are

Ada:

always in relationship with each other. But whether you're you

Ada:

decide to deal with sign based aspects or not depends on The

Ada:

amount of information that you want to be dealing with with the

Ada:

chart at the time. So if you have a whole bunch of aspects,

Ada:

and you're feeling overwhelmed, tighten up the orbs so that

Ada:

you're dealing with less information. But if you're the

Ada:

kind of person like you who is able to deal with a ton of

Ada:

information, then considering the relationships between all of

Ada:

the planets in the chart gives you a more complete and total

Ada:

picture, but also more information to deal with at the

Ada:

same time.

Tristan:

I'm glad you mentioned orbs, because I think that's

Tristan:

another important thing we should probably mention. Sorry,

Tristan:

I cut you off. Kyle, you go ahead, and then we can define

Tristan:

orbs?

Kyle:

Yeah, no, yeah, that's, um, I tend to take a similar

Kyle:

approach, where basically the aspects that are closest in

Kyle:

degree, I'm going to look at first, and if somebody has a

Kyle:

bunch of them, you know, probably not going to get to the

Kyle:

ones that are wide, you know, but people who have a lot more

Kyle:

who don't maybe have a lot of really tight aspects, you know,

Kyle:

those wider orbed, if you will, aspects tend to be a lot more

Kyle:

important, a lot more relevant. Because I just tend to look at,

Kyle:

you know, looking at things from the perspective of one planet,

Kyle:

like, what, what's the closest applying aspect? You know,

Kyle:

what's the closest separating one, you know, what other

Kyle:

relationships are there? And you can sort of kind of grade a

Kyle:

little bit from there.

Tristan:

Yeah, that's, that is also my approach for sure.

Kyle:

Think about it as like that planets a character in a

Kyle:

movie, you know, who, who is it that fun to have the most

Kyle:

dialogue with? In the movie? You know? Yeah, who are they

Kyle:

engaging with all the time, who sits there? Magic foil, if you

Kyle:

will.

Tristan:

I like that metaphor a lot, sort of like, who has the

Tristan:

most number of lines of dialogue with you have all of your

Tristan:

colleagues in a play or a movie, that sort of the the planet that

Tristan:

is closest in aspect to you by degree is the one you have the

Tristan:

most screen time with? Yeah, I love that too. And I should

Tristan:

probably define orbs really quick. So that's another there's

Tristan:

a lot of jargon in this discipline. So another piece of

Tristan:

Astro jargon that you'll run into if you're first learning

Tristan:

and you're learning about aspects is orb. And that is a

Tristan:

way of describing how close or far away two planets are in

Tristan:

their aspect by degree. So to give an example, if you are

Tristan:

looking at a conjunction of two planets in the same sign, say

Tristan:

we've got Saturn and Mercury in Libra, and Saturn is at 16

Tristan:

degrees of Libra, and Mercury is at 15 degrees of Libra. They are

Tristan:

one degree apart. So you'd say that's an orb of one degree. And

Tristan:

you know, in some traditions of astrology, you don't use whole

Tristan:

sign aspects. And so there will be sort of a predetermined orb

Tristan:

and past that point, you don't pay attention. So maybe the orb

Tristan:

is 10 degrees. And if there if the orb is greater than 10

Tristan:

degrees, you don't pay attention to the aspect. Medieval

Tristan:

astrology has some really, really complicated orb stuff

Tristan:

going on. And if you're into that, I'll put a link to an

Tristan:

article in the show notes if you really want to dig into how orbs

Tristan:

were used in medieval astrology they got very into this and very

Tristan:

strict about it. I like the way evolutionary and Hellenistic

Tristan:

astrology do it personally where it's a little more flexible, a

Tristan:

little bit less math.

Kyle:

I I'm so grateful for I actually love the elegance of

Kyle:

math, in that. I like it as the basis for like, justifying

Kyle:

something or explaining something like it has a

Kyle:

mathematical basis. I'm like, Oh, cool. I can I can set my

Kyle:

coffee down on that. But I think I really like when other people

Kyle:

do that math for me. I could not have been an astrologer 50 years

Kyle:

ago, I just couldn't have been grateful that's the other people

Kyle:

smarter than me have done all that work for me.

Ada:

Thank goodness for astrology software. It allows

Ada:

poets to be astrologers.

Kyle:

Exactly. The art, the art, the kids,

Ada:

liberal arts majors doing math.

Kyle:

I bet you that probably explains so much about the ways

Kyle:

modern astrology has changed. Oh yeah, it's less scientists and

Kyle:

mathematicians who are delineating fate. You know, and

Kyle:

even people with a more creative, open minded

Kyle:

perspective on things who are, you know, going to look at

Kyle:

things a little differently.

Ada:

You don't need trigger to cast a chart anymore. tweets.

Tristan:

It's great. Another thing I think we just mentioned,

Tristan:

was applying and separating some more important jargon. Both

Tristan:

aspects. Are the two planets getting closer in their aspect,

Tristan:

or are they getting farther away from their aspect by degree. So

Tristan:

an aspect that's applying easy example is the moon because it

Tristan:

moves really, really quickly. If the Moon is at six degrees of

Tristan:

Pisces, and Saturn is at seven degrees of Pisces, the moon

Tristan:

moves faster than Saturn, it's approaching that conjunction

Tristan:

with Saturn. And so that's an applying aspect. Whereas once

Tristan:

the moon hits eight degrees of Pisces, the aspect is

Tristan:

separating. And there are interpretive distinctions,

Tristan:

applying aspects or thought, at least in Hellenistic astrology

Tristan:

to be another sort of exclamation point, if you're

Tristan:

looking at the aspects in your chart, and you notice some that

Tristan:

are applying, especially if they're really close that sort

Tristan:

of like pay attention to this. I pay attention to both I think

Tristan:

this sort of energy of the dialogue is different. I don't

Tristan:

know how how you to treat applying and separating aspects

Tristan:

differently.

Kyle:

Yeah, I'm actually good topic, I think, because there is

Kyle:

a lot of different like ideas about it. And I'm actually

Kyle:

curious what you guys think, because I know for me, like,

Kyle:

say, the traditional Hellenistic approach will often kind of

Kyle:

treat it black and white in a lot of the texts, but you'll

Kyle:

find actually a lot more nuanced interpretation in ancient texts,

Kyle:

as well, but that applying aspects are things that will

Kyle:

happen in the future things, the events that will transpire,

Kyle:

separating aspects, things that maybe look like they're going to

Kyle:

happen, but they don't or, or things that happened in the past

Kyle:

before you were born. And in practice, I don't find that

Kyle:

really to be very useful. And applying aspects certainly are a

Kyle:

lot more. Explanation mark is a good word for it. I find that

Kyle:

like, separating aspects, it's like almost stuff that like you

Kyle:

sort of come into the world with a little bit like they're a

Kyle:

little more ingrained in your your DNA, if you will, which

Kyle:

actually sort of ties into that idea of things that happen

Kyle:

before, but when I think about it, in terms of like, the the

Kyle:

moon, right, and actually, it's a traditional technique to look

Kyle:

at the last 30 degrees of the moon, and all the aspects that

Kyle:

it made, leading up to where it is in the chart, and then like

Kyle:

the next 30, and sort of tells you the story of that moon, and

Kyle:

often that person's life and a lot of ways. But, you know,

Kyle:

thinking about it in terms of the aspect, being something that

Kyle:

relationship, and it's like the planet, when it's separating

Kyle:

from the aspect, it's sort of carrying that aspect with it. on

Kyle:

its journey, it's in its backpack, you know, it's, it's

Kyle:

sort of loaded up a little bit with it. And as it moves

Kyle:

forward, it's going to kind of spend that energy spend it, it

Kyle:

might diminish, you know, the further and further away that

Kyle:

you get. But I often find that in practice, like they're still

Kyle:

very relevant. And often transfer events transpire around

Kyle:

separating aspects. I think when the relationship is also

Kyle:

emphasized in other ways that we'll talk about, that

Kyle:

relationship becomes a lot more strengthened, you know, if

Kyle:

they're in each other's signs, for example, or one of the

Kyle:

planets isn't the other planet sign. There's reception.

Tristan:

Yeah, I love the sort of using the moon to tell the

Tristan:

story, like looking at what it did, you know, before the event

Tristan:

happened, and after the event happened, and all the aspects it

Tristan:

makes, there is a sort of past things that happened in the past

Tristan:

quality to separating aspects and things that are coming to be

Tristan:

in the future quality to applying aspects. As you know,

Tristan:

you can probably tell by now I lean pretty heavily on the

Tristan:

aspects as being sort of dialogue. And so I that's often

Tristan:

how I differentiate applying and separating is it's like if you

Tristan:

look ahead of you across the street, and you see somebody you

Tristan:

know, and you're walking towards each other. That moment has a

Tristan:

certain quality to it. And then you meet and you say hello and

Tristan:

you make small talk and get caught up. And then you go your

Tristan:

separate ways, but there's still there's been this energy

Tristan:

exchange that's happened you've had an effect on one another.

Tristan:

And so Even though you're going your separate ways that energy

Tristan:

is still lingering like, you might have been in a really

Tristan:

crappy mood, you might have been like walking down the street,

Tristan:

thinking about an argument you got in with your boss. And then

Tristan:

you see somebody that you really like up ahead that you know, and

Tristan:

you have a really nice chat with them, and it cheers you up, and

Tristan:

now your whole outlook has changed. And that stays with you

Tristan:

after the interaction. So I tend to think that separating

Tristan:

aspects, although you're sort of leaving the the maximum

Tristan:

intensity of the interaction, the energy of the interaction is

Tristan:

still present. And now you're sort of carrying it with you. So

Tristan:

there's sort of maybe a bit of symbolism of like experience

Tristan:

that comes with the separating aspects, even if you're not sort

Tristan:

of looking at it as this is something that's going to come

Tristan:

in the future. versus something that happened in the past,

Tristan:

looking at it as you know, an applying aspect is like this is

Tristan:

something that I need to learn. And a separating aspect is more

Tristan:

like this is something that I've already experienced, that has a

Tristan:

strong effect on me that I sort of come into this world having a

Tristan:

bit more of a grasp on that can be an interpretive distinction

Tristan:

that I find useful personally.

Kyle:

Yeah, I mean, that's perfect. You're gonna say

Kyle:

something later, but I had to get the thought out, because

Kyle:

it's it, I always think about it is like, no, like old married

Kyle:

couples, it's like, they don't necessarily need to talk all the

Kyle:

time, because like, they already kind of like, read each other's

Kyle:

minds, you know, they're already the relationship is it's like

Kyle:

already well established. While like in applying aspects, like

Kyle:

somebody you meet on the street, and you're like, Oh, I'm excited

Kyle:

to meet this new person who has all these new experiences to

Kyle:

share with me. But like, often the relationships that you go

Kyle:

back to that stay important in your life are the ones that are

Kyle:

like, you don't have to maintain too much, or you don't have to,

Kyle:

you can take for granted a little bit, or Yeah, cuz it's

Kyle:

like more comfortable. So I mean, I don't always look at a

Kyle:

separating aspect is like a negative thing. It's almost

Kyle:

like, there's like a gym, like the it's like gentler, or it's I

Kyle:

don't know, sometimes it can be easier, in a sense, where it's

Kyle:

just like, like you were saying, Tristan, like, Oh, so you have

Kyle:

an aspect, some kind of another, like, indicating really good at

Kyle:

math. Maybe it's like separating, it's like, oh, the

Kyle:

math just kind of comes easily to me. I'm not like obsessed

Kyle:

with math. I'm not like, I need to dig and dig and find all the

Kyle:

new maths and invent new forms of math that anybody does. I'm

Kyle:

not a mathematician. But yeah, it's like easy, it's natural,

Kyle:

you know?

Ada:

Think that there are a lot of similarities between the way

Ada:

that you to approach planning and separating aspects and the

Ada:

way that I approach them. As an evolutionary astrologer, I

Ada:

really like the metaphor of past lives. I don't, I don't know

Ada:

what I believe about them. Literally, I'm not much of a

Ada:

person for believing things literally. Unless it's like, you

Ada:

know, based in science, like I'm not like a climate denier or

Ada:

anything. But when it comes to like metaphysical, very good

Ada:

company. But when it comes to metaphysical stuff, I really

Ada:

like to think of things in terms of stories. I, my background is

Ada:

in fiction writing. So that's just naturally the way I see the

Ada:

world. That's why the narrative astrology thing. So the way that

Ada:

I like to think about applying and separating aspects is

Ada:

separating aspects are things that are carried over from past

Ada:

lives, and they're separating. So the story is resolved. But

Ada:

the effects of what happened are still reverberating, you have

Ada:

ingrained habits from from the past that you've carried over

Ada:

into this life, you might have skills that you've learned,

Ada:

like, I love your mathematician metaphor, like, if you were a

Ada:

crazy, awesome mathematician, if you were Kepler in a past life,

Ada:

you probably are amazing at working with minor aspects and

Ada:

you'll carry that skill forward with you. But maybe that's not

Ada:

the main plot for you anymore. Maybe you have that ability, but

Ada:

you've come into this life with another aspect that is inclining

Ada:

you to be a poet and maybe it's a I don't know if you work with

Ada:

modern planets, but maybe you've got a moon aspecting Neptune

Ada:

thing and it's an applying aspect. And something that is

Ada:

coming down the pike for you something that's going to be

Ada:

part of your story is learning how to work with more mystical

Ada:

ways of knowing more political ways of knowing. So the

Ada:

separating aspects are things that are in the past. They're

Ada:

not the main story anymore. You might have habits, you might

Ada:

have repercussions, you might have wounds that you're still

Ada:

dealing with. If there is an aspect it is still relevant. But

Ada:

applying aspects are kind of like the signs that you see when

Ada:

you're driving down the highway that tell you that there's an

Ada:

exit coming or something. They maybe aren't things that you're

Ada:

working with yet, or not things that you're bringing from a past

Ada:

life. But they are increasingly relevant to you as you go

Ada:

through your life. I was reading in, I don't remember if it's

Ada:

Chris Brandon's Hellenistic astrology, or it was either

Ada:

Chris Brennan Dimitra, George, or Charles bears books on

Ada:

traditional astrology yesterday, but they were saying that if you

Ada:

depending on the distance between the planets, you can see

Ada:

where where in your life, something is going to happen. So

Ada:

if it's 123, it's going to be something that you experienced

Ada:

in your youth seven, to three to seven, middle age seven to 10.

Ada:

And plus, it's going to be something you meet when you're

Ada:

older. And so like, I see orbs and applying aspects that way,

Ada:

it says, it tells you what's coming and tells you roughly

Ada:

when it's coming so that you can prepare.

Tristan:

I like that a lot. I like the sorry, Kyle, you look

Tristan:

like you have a thought and I know that you will lose it. And

Tristan:

I will probably remember mine. So

Kyle:

the Three Stooges trying to get to the doorway, right

Kyle:

now. Well, the first one was I was just I was feeling very

Kyle:

validated actually is the word I'm going to use internally,

Kyle:

same by Yeah, what it was saying about just be using, like, I

Kyle:

feel very similarly about past lives, I'm not really sure where

Kyle:

I stand on it, but it's a beautiful metaphor for what

Kyle:

we're describing, and really, dealing with astrology, it's all

Kyle:

metaphors, you know, you can believe in it literally as past

Kyle:

lives, and you will likely still get the same benefit from

Kyle:

approaching it. That way, though, personally, I argue, you

Kyle:

know, you can get a little too hung up on, on looking at taking

Kyle:

these ways of describing what's happening, to literally, you

Kyle:

know, leaning on the metaphors is really what I like to do. But

Kyle:

second stage, it gets gave up and I'm man, it's gonna bother

Kyle:

me now. Don't go with your thought trust, and it might come

Kyle:

back to me.

Tristan:

i It's, it's helping me sort of clarify what I think

Tristan:

about applying versus separating aspects listening to what you

Tristan:

were saying Ada and how, you know, I tend to think of

Tristan:

applying ones as more of sort of an exclamation point, it's not

Tristan:

that the separating ones are not important or relevant. They're

Tristan:

just as relevant. But it's sort of like this isn't necessarily

Tristan:

something that is going to require a lot of conscious

Tristan:

attention and effort. Whereas the applying one it's like this

Tristan:

is, you know, maybe something new or something really

Tristan:

demanding, that's just going to require, you're not going to be

Tristan:

able to just sort of implicitly process this, you know, you

Tristan:

can't just sleep on it, you've got to really like pay attention

Tristan:

to it to work through it. Loved your like old married couple

Tristan:

metaphor, Kyle, because I definitely feel like you know,

Tristan:

the applying and like exact point of an aspect is sort of

Tristan:

like the honeymoon phase of a relationship when it's at like

Tristan:

peak intensity, and you only care about each other and the

Tristan:

rest of the world doesn't exist anymore. And that is not

Tristan:

sustainable. And then the separating aspect is like you're

Tristan:

past the honeymoon phase, you've determined that you are in fact,

Tristan:

a good match. And it's not just hormones, and you know, you

Tristan:

aren't, you're able to pay attention to other things in

Tristan:

your life again, and it's not sort of like completely taking

Tristan:

you over the infatuation is everything it's like, I can

Tristan:

balance my love for this person with you know, my other

Tristan:

relationships and with my work and all of that other stuff. And

Tristan:

it's a little more comfortable and easy, I sort of have a sense

Tristan:

of like, we're in we've got a pattern, we have a sense of, you

Tristan:

know, how we communicate, I can sort of predict what what will

Tristan:

happen in the relationship a little better. So I don't have

Tristan:

to think about it so much, you know, I can can kind of relax a

Tristan:

little bit.

Kyle:

It's like not the focus of the plot of your life

Kyle:

anymore, you know, which is really where you want to get to

Kyle:

in relationships, but it was actually what it was saying

Kyle:

because you're looking at separated aspects. If you're

Kyle:

looking at it in that sense of like past lives, you know, using

Kyle:

that metaphor, you're carrying, you know, the baggage or the

Kyle:

experiences of the past life into this life, and like what

Kyle:

are you doing with it? And that's really what I like to do

Kyle:

when I'm looking at a planet specifically like What's this

Kyle:

planet doing? What was its last aspect or its last couple of

Kyle:

aspects. And what's its next aspect? Like, what is it

Kyle:

bringing to the this next relationship because that next

Kyle:

relationship, that applying aspect is going to be more the

Kyle:

center of the plot, it's gonna be more like the pivot point

Kyle:

around which the story unfolds, maybe. But the separating

Kyle:

aspects are super important, because that's what it has in

Kyle:

the backpack. That's what it has to offer in this relationship

Kyle:

that it's coming into.

Ada:

It's the backstory and the the habits of thought, like, I

Ada:

love what you said about old very couples. And one of the

Ada:

things that made me think is that when you've been with

Ada:

somebody for a long time, it is increasingly difficult for them

Ada:

to surprise you whether you should be surprised. So one of

Ada:

the problems I think with with separating aspects are one of

Ada:

the challenges that people have with them is, you've been

Ada:

through this so many times that you just kind of are going

Ada:

through it by rote, and, you know, your your partner could

Ada:

maybe walk in wearing a Dr. Seuss hat, and you wouldn't

Ada:

notice because you've just gotten so used to your little

Ada:

routine, you don't see things that are changing. And so

Ada:

there's a sense in which you're more open to surprise with

Ada:

applying aspects. But separating aspects, you know, if you've

Ada:

kind of fallen into a routine and habits and expectations also

Ada:

have the ability to blow you out of the water because you just

Ada:

kind of go into it. I especially have this problem. I go into it

Ada:

with arrogance, like I know what this is about. And then all of a

Ada:

sudden, I get blindsided by Uranus or something.

Kyle:

I totally, I have the same experience all the time to

Kyle:

be humbled over and over again. But I had one more analogy. And

Kyle:

it's a role playing analogy. Yeah, separating aspects are

Kyle:

like eating and when you're creating your, your character,

Kyle:

before you start the game, it's like your stats, right for that

Kyle:

character. backstory that character. Yes, you know, and

Kyle:

then the blinding aspects or like, the game, where you know,

Kyle:

those stats interact with the dice rolls and the plot and

Kyle:

everything. Oh, my goodness, I

Tristan:

love that amazing swish. And, you know, for,

Tristan:

again, you know, for anyone listening, who's new to

Tristan:

astrology, these, you know, episodes are intended to be one

Tristan:

on one. So if you're brand new to this, and you're going okay,

Tristan:

I've heard all these great things about how to interpret

Tristan:

applying versus separating aspects, how do I figure out if

Tristan:

my aspects are applying or separating? I will also put a

Tristan:

link in the show notes with instructions on how to figure

Tristan:

this out, when you cast your chart on astro.com. There's a

Tristan:

way to see whether they're applying or separating. And you

Tristan:

don't have to do any math, because software just does it

Tristan:

all. For us. It's great.

Kyle:

Yeah, what I really like to do with that, not that we're

Kyle:

gonna go on a deep dive on that. But if you get using software,

Kyle:

just progress the chart like, days ahead and days behind, you

Kyle:

know, maybe like a week or more, depending on the planet you're

Kyle:

looking at. And actually see because sometimes, like the moon

Kyle:

moves very fast, you know, and usually it's really easy to

Kyle:

identify whether it's separating our planet, the moon, because no

Kyle:

planet really gets up to moon speed. But sometimes planets are

Kyle:

about to go retrograde and like it maybe looks like they're

Kyle:

separating, but they're actually applying and that can be

Tristan:

tricky. It's retrograde planets are tricky.

Tristan:

Basta, they are Yeah. Yeah, if you have an option to animate a

Tristan:

chart, if you use like Luna astrology, it has like, it's a

Tristan:

subscription based website, but it allows you to just like flip

Tristan:

backwards and forwards in time. And that's another easy way to

Tristan:

see if aspects are applying or separating. It's a little

Tristan:

cheaper than, you know, shelling out for the really expensive

Tristan:

astrology software that lets you animate charts.

Kyle:

Yeah, but whether you're doing it through, say astro.com

Kyle:

That's what you're gonna recommend her.

Tristan:

Yeah. astro.com will show you

Kyle:

however you're doing it. i It's my homework for everybody

Kyle:

at home, though, is to just look at take a you know, any planet

Kyle:

in your chart, maybe the planet that rules your first house

Kyle:

might be a good one. That's a good place to start and look at

Kyle:

its last, the aspect that it's separating from what it's

Kyle:

applying to. And that is likely going to tell you, you know,

Kyle:

very important, let's say plot point of your life. You can get

Kyle:

a lot from just that. And we recommend doing that.

Tristan:

Yeah, that's a great idea. Rate exercise. Do we have

Tristan:

anything else we wanted to say about? Orbs or applying and

Tristan:

separating aspects before we actually just define the aspects

Tristan:

that we're going to be talking about?

Kyle:

Always, but we've said

Ada:

this is a one on one class you say?

Tristan:

We, if you want, like a really structured one, on the

Tristan:

astrology podcast episode on aspects goes through it in a

Tristan:

very structured way. Yeah, but it's like 50 words long, isn't

Tristan:

it? It's pretty lousy podcast. I know. I mean,

Kyle:

I call it a one on one series, but I think it is

Kyle:

probably what ends up being like our response to all the

Kyle:

information that we've encountered that's available,

Kyle:

and like maybe what we thought was missing. So it's a little

Kyle:

bit of one on one and a little bit of like, oh, maybe here's

Kyle:

some stuff that that I thought needed to be addressed.

Tristan:

Yes, some additional details that you don't always

Tristan:

find in your basic 101 stuff that are important. Well, I'm

Tristan:

gonna go ahead and just, you know, describe these five

Tristan:

aspects that we've been sort of dancing around for a while now,

Tristan:

the sort of easiest aspects to define and visualize, are the

Tristan:

conjunction and the opposition. So a conjunction happens when

Tristan:

two planets or points are in the same sign. And the sort of

Tristan:

symbolism is that there is a blending, they've become one.

Tristan:

They are sort of like a chimera. And an example of a conjunction

Tristan:

that, you can, I was gonna say, like, very easily see, but I

Tristan:

guess you technically can't is a new moon. If you go outside, on

Tristan:

a clear night, when the moon is new, you can't see it. And that

Tristan:

is because it is conjunct the sun, so it's as far below the

Tristan:

horizon as it can possibly get there in the same place in the

Tristan:

zodiac. So no moon, it's with the sun, you can't see it.

Kyle:

The conjunction Actually, yes. Like they're not seeing

Kyle:

each other. They're now with each other, you know, there as

Kyle:

one, like, you don't like looking at your hands all the

Kyle:

time. Or you might but like, it's more like that than like,

Kyle:

yeah, talking to the guy. Three chairs to your your right or

Kyle:

something.

Tristan:

Yeah, that's a really good point is it is it's like

Tristan:

when two planets are conjunct. They're like part of each

Tristan:

other's body at that point. Whereas the opposition, which is

Tristan:

also very easy to visualize, is when two planets or points are

Tristan:

in opposite signs of the zodiac. So if the aspect is exact by

Tristan:

degree, there'll be 180 degrees apart. So just polar opposite

Tristan:

there, and sister signs, just staring at each other. And an

Tristan:

easy way to remember the opposition is the full moon,

Tristan:

when the moon is full, it's perfectly opposite the sun, and

Tristan:

that's why it is fall. That's why you can see this nice big

Tristan:

bright orb in the sky. And the opposition, I'll mention, there

Tristan:

are planets associated with each of the aspects that helps you to

Tristan:

understand what they mean. And how those planets were assigned

Tristan:

to the aspects is a little more complicated than I think we

Tristan:

should probably get into in this episode. And one of those things

Tristan:

that really requires a visual to understand anyway, just

Tristan:

listening to his talk, you're gonna be like, what the hell

Tristan:

you're talking about, you need a diagram. So I'll try to always

Tristan:

try to rustle something up for the show notes for that. But

Tristan:

Anyway, point being that each aspects, not the conjunction,

Tristan:

but the other four is associated with a planet. And that tells

Tristan:

you something about what it means. So the opposition belongs

Tristan:

to Saturn. It is the aspect of Saturn. And so you can see sort

Tristan:

of meanings like delays, obstacles, confrontations that

Tristan:

sort of slow you down or wear you down. That's the symbolism

Tristan:

of the opposition. The square is planets that have the same mode,

Tristan:

like two planets and fixed signs, but they don't share an

Tristan:

element. If they're exact, there'll be 90 degrees apart.

Tristan:

And that is another tense aspect. It belongs to Mars. So

Tristan:

you get confrontation dynamic tension, it's very active. It's

Tristan:

very hot and prickly kind of relationship. You know, planets

Tristan:

are squaring each other. They're not having like pleasant small

Tristan:

talk, they might be fighting. They might not be fighting, they

Tristan:

might just be having like a really intense conversation

Tristan:

about causation. Yeah, or Yeah, something very, or something

Tristan:

very controversial and very dynamic

Kyle:

energy exchange going on, depending on the planet.

Kyle:

involved.

Tristan:

And then you've got the soft aspects the Trine,

Tristan:

which belongs to Jupiter. And that is, you know, as I've

Tristan:

described at length when two planets or points are in the

Tristan:

same sign of the zodiac, there'll be about 90 degrees

Tristan:

apart. And that's a nice, easy, harmonious aspect, you know, a

Tristan:

little bit more like pleasant small talk than the square. And

Tristan:

the sextile is the aspect that belongs to Venus. And it occurs

Tristan:

when planets are the same polarity. They're not when

Tristan:

they're not opposing each other, but they're in the same

Tristan:

polarity. So air signs And fire signs, or earth signs of water

Tristan:

signs will sextile each other. And that's another kind of nice,

Tristan:

harmonious aspect.

Kyle:

The way that the signs in those aspects will interact with

Kyle:

each other is really, really useful in interpreting them. And

Kyle:

we'll get into that more, I think, as we're interpreting the

Kyle:

aspects individually. But yeah, I, I wish they were done at this

Kyle:

point. They're not yet. But so it'd be a great opportunity to

Kyle:

plug some reference material that I'm in the process of

Kyle:

creating. And, like we have some really nice, like thema Mundi

Kyle:

posters. So basically, all this shit that we talked about, and

Kyle:

the jargon that we use is going to be available for you. And

Kyle:

like a really easy to I read sort of like just like a poster

Kyle:

on your wall. And you're like, Oh, I know all of astrology

Kyle:

because I have this on my warm. You'll see, you all see, one day

Tristan:

I'm looking forward to I will finally know astrology.

Tristan:

It will just me I'll never have to study again.

Kyle:

Yeah, I mean, because I want to talk about because the

Kyle:

theme of Monday will tell you so much. And you can break it down

Kyle:

into like so many, like different ways, but it's

Kyle:

something relevant, and maybe looking at the theme of Monday,

Kyle:

which will include in the show notes will will tell you is that

Kyle:

like the county said that the opposition is of the nature of

Kyle:

Saturn, or the trends of the nature of Jupiter, squares of

Kyle:

the nature of Mars and the sextile to the nature of Venus.

Kyle:

For reasons that are very well represented by right thema

Kyle:

Mundi?

Tristan:

Yeah, you gotta you've really got to visualize that you

Tristan:

got to overlay the planets and their rulership on Monday. And

Tristan:

then you will understand based on their relationships with the

Tristan:

sun and moon, when you look at it, you'll be like, Oh, that's

Tristan:

why the squares is Mars's, and, etc.

Kyle:

Why you need a really cool poster so that you can

Kyle:

stare at it until it lives in your mind. And then then you can

Kyle:

play with it. For all I can your mind palace.

Ada:

Sima de is such a great story. I love the idea that we

Ada:

even mythologically have the birth chart for the beginning of

Ada:

the world. I think

Tristan:

it is a beaut and it's a cancer rising, which is

Tristan:

perfect.

Kyle:

Makes makes me feel really cool. But yeah, it

Kyle:

totally makes sense that the universe can surprising somebody

Kyle:

so many ways, for good and bad.

Tristan:

That's all good. Cancer is only good. There's

Tristan:

nothing nothing bad. There's nothing bad about cancer rising,

Tristan:

squishy, cuddly

Kyle:

teddy bears. Exactly. Well, with that, do we want to

Kyle:

jump in and actually start talking about these aspects? So

Kyle:

let's do it. All right. So I forget our justification for

Kyle:

this, but we're gonna start with the sextile. No, yeah, you

Kyle:

describe it, you're you have I mean, no, I remember the reason

Kyle:

was good. I just don't remember what it was.

Tristan:

I mean, we are kind of arbitrarily starting with the

Tristan:

sextile. There isn't a rational, logical reason for beginning at

Tristan:

the sextile in particular, but the way we're grouping the

Tristan:

aspects together, there is some method behind it. So we're going

Tristan:

to start with the two soft aspects, the sextile, and then

Tristan:

the Trine the aspects that are generally considered to be

Tristan:

harmonious and supportive. Because although they both

Tristan:

represent similar things, there are some differences between

Tristan:

them. So if we kind of put them together, it's a bit of an

Tristan:

opportunity to contrast the difference between the Trine and

Tristan:

the sextile. And then the same with the square in the

Tristan:

opposition, the two hard aspects. So that's where we'll

Tristan:

start. We'll start off with the sextile and then jump into the

Tristan:

Trine and then maybe chat a bit about what makes these two

Tristan:

aspects distinct.

Kyle:

I feel good about starting with the sextile

Kyle:

because it is just such an underrated aspect. Oh, yeah, I

Kyle:

agree. Oh, it's like half a train. Right. So like, almost as

Kyle:

good as a train but not really.

Ada:

I totally disagree with the standard explanation that, uh,

Ada:

that a sextile is weaker than a try and like, in my experience,

Ada:

it's a very exciting aspect the the planets have this energy

Ada:

between them that's like the chatard

Kyle:

Yeah, I, you know, astrology is a art of analogies,

Kyle:

right and comparing things and making things like other things.

Kyle:

And I always liked the idea of the sextile being of the nature

Kyle:

of Venus, right? Because that tells you so much about the

Kyle:

sextile. It's, it's harmonizing things, it's bringing things

Kyle:

together, and sextiles to me, like it's more of a day to day

Kyle:

sort of experience, I find the sextile sort of like day to day

Kyle:

cooperation, I think on our episode, about the difference

Kyle:

between trines and sextiles. We were talking about sextiles,

Kyle:

being more of like a one on one relationship, while trines tend

Kyle:

to indicate like sometimes it can kind of indicate the

Kyle:

privilege just like sort of fitting into your society

Kyle:

fitting into your, your culture, the sorts of leg ups, legs, the

Kyle:

boosts you get in life, due to just the nature of your your

Kyle:

circumstances, all sextiles you you sort of work with a little

Kyle:

more you engaged with, but we'll keep it focused on the sextile.

Kyle:

But yeah, what are you gonna start with the sextile,

Tristan:

I definitely lean on it being the aspect of Venus

Tristan:

quite a bit, I find the planetary associations really

Tristan:

helpful. Or the sextile being of the nature of Venus, I think

Tristan:

gives it a sort of sense of creativity. It's creating

Tristan:

harmony and unity among people or parts, or situations that are

Tristan:

different from each other in some way. So sort of like, when

Tristan:

a band plays together, each member is playing a different

Tristan:

instrument, they each have unique sound, they each have a

Tristan:

unique skill set that they bring. But when you put them all

Tristan:

together, you get something that is cohesive and harmonious and

Tristan:

often greater than what any one of those individual people could

Tristan:

do alone. So with the sextile, you get that sense of strength

Tristan:

in togetherness of being able to work towards super ordinate

Tristan:

goals, goals that cannot be achieved without cooperation.

Tristan:

And something about those kinds of goals is that they bring

Tristan:

people together who are very different from one another. And

Tristan:

I think that's sort of the power of the sextile is, you can have

Tristan:

two planets that are fairly different from each other. But

Tristan:

the sextile creates sort of like a common goal that the two of

Tristan:

them share. And so even though there are these differences,

Tristan:

there's enough similarity between them that they're able

Tristan:

to sort of come together and those differences actually

Tristan:

become a strength, because each one makes up for something that

Tristan:

the other lacks. And so they're able, like I said, to do more

Tristan:

than they could alone. So that's sort of my my take on the nature

Tristan:

of the sextile

Kyle:

read of component is really important with the

Kyle:

sextile, because you get that Venus quality, but you have to

Kyle:

separate two different elements that generally get along well

Kyle:

together, you know, most sextiles can be either fire and

Kyle:

air or earth and water. But you also have sort of two different

Kyle:

modalities. And this is a theme with all the soft aspects, both

Kyle:

of the soft aspects is that they're taking place between

Kyle:

compatible elements, but different modalities. Right. So

Kyle:

the modality exchange is generally a positive thing, you

Kyle:

know, having more than one modality involved in a dynamic,

Kyle:

it's like having two people doing different jobs that are

Kyle:

related to the same task, you know, as opposed to both of you

Kyle:

trying to do the same thing in a different way. And sort of

Kyle:

bumping into each other and, and maybe having to, to butt heads a

Kyle:

bit over, you know, who's how we're going to do this thing.

Kyle:

The sextile is very, it's very creative, and it requires

Kyle:

synthesis. Like it requires a sort of, like more active

Kyle:

engagement, think because it's like you're trying to create

Kyle:

something with two different elements. You're trying to

Kyle:

create something with, say earth and water. And that creative

Kyle:

interaction ends up making something new making something

Kyle:

that is not entirely earth or water that's making something

Kyle:

like mud, or, or making the Earth more fertile. Right. Yeah,

Kyle:

that combination in synthesis between two different things.

Kyle:

It's, you know, it's very Venus. It's very art. I'm thinking of a

Kyle:

reading I did recently and they had a sextile between Mercury

Kyle:

and Venus. Leave Mercury's in Pisces and Venus was in

Kyle:

Capricorn. And they are a designer. Right? Of course, of

Kyle:

course your designer. Makes sense. I love

Ada:

that word. Talking about this in terms of Venus. Because

Ada:

when I when I think about Venus, the first word that comes to

Ada:

mind is attraction. And yeah, in traditional astrology planets

Ada:

are exist in in opposite pairs of opposites and to create

Ada:

contrast, and Venus exists in the the opposite of merging and

Ada:

separating with Mars, Venus is about merging and Mars is about

Ada:

separating. And so like, I think that the, the fundamental energy

Ada:

underlying sextiles is desire. And, but it is a desire that can

Ada:

never resolve because they have the the same underlying

Ada:

polarity. So they have enough in common that they are attracted

Ada:

to each other. But they're so different, that they're never

Ada:

going to be able to fully merge. And so there's a situation where

Ada:

it's mutual attraction that just grows and grows and grows, and

Ada:

you're always finding a different angle, a different

Ada:

thing that you, you know, these two planets are constantly

Ada:

finding different things that they love about each other. And

Ada:

it's like, there are surprises around every corner, but it's

Ada:

like, you know, you round the corner and it's like, oh, a

Ada:

puppy. Oh, birthday cake. Like, it's just a never ending series

Ada:

of delights and joys.

Kyle:

I like that a lot. It's, it's because they're, they're

Kyle:

separate, right? I was just thinking, like, you know, say

Kyle:

you have a podcast about astrology. Right? And you meet

Kyle:

someone else who has a podcast about astrology. It's like, oh,

Kyle:

yeah, we can work together. And we can, you know, both come on

Kyle:

each other's shows and do astrology together. Right?

Kyle:

Awesome. More astrology. More astrology. We love astrology.

Kyle:

Right? Yeah, but sextile is a little more like meeting

Kyle:

somebody who has, say, a podcast about history, or another topic,

Kyle:

but I'm gonna go with history because I like history. And

Kyle:

there are two different topics. But there's a natural

Kyle:

compatibility with history. And, you know, bring those two hosts

Kyle:

together, they are different hosts, who are doing different

Kyle:

things, but you combine them and you create something a synthesis

Kyle:

that is, you know, new, like you could a different way of, of

Kyle:

reviewing history or understanding history by using

Kyle:

astrology for context, or, yeah, but then there's like a sort of

Kyle:

an excitement there. Because like, Oh, you're doing something

Kyle:

that's different from what I do. But I find what you do so

Kyle:

interesting, and I, you know, I want to be like you when I grow

Kyle:

up.

Tristan:

That's a really, really, really good analogy, I

Tristan:

think of the two different podcasts where the podcast is

Tristan:

sort of like the polarity being shared in common, but you don't

Tristan:

have a mode or an element in common. So when you come

Tristan:

together, you create something that is sort of a blend of what

Tristan:

both of you do, it's still a podcast, but you're sort of

Tristan:

bringing these two very different genres together, and

Tristan:

sort of finding the common ground between them. sextiles, I

Tristan:

think, are very good for pattern matching. They're good for

Tristan:

finding the patterns and things and finding the common ground

Tristan:

and things. And that can be really helpful when you have

Tristan:

planets that rep represent very different themes. When there's a

Tristan:

sextile. Between them, it's like, oh, the way you do things

Tristan:

is very unusual, but I get it. And I can see ways that I can

Tristan:

integrate the way you do things into the way I do things. And

Tristan:

again, it's like all acts of creativity, you're bringing, you

Tristan:

know, like a paintbrush and a canvas. And, you know, like the

Tristan:

one planet is the paintbrush, the other planet is the canvas

Tristan:

and when the sextile happens, you end up with painting.

Ada:

Yeah, it's not our activity.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's, it's not like a stretch, to combine things

Kyle:

that are sextile with each other. Granted, you know, the

Kyle:

two planets in question. They there can be tension between two

Kyle:

planets in a sextile depending on on those planets and maybe

Kyle:

the condition or what sign they're in, you know, so, I

Kyle:

guess when interpreting a sextile or any aspect, like

Kyle:

start with the planets separately, like try to get a

Kyle:

sense of what they are doing. And they're sort of struggles

Kyle:

and see opposite of a struggle, their successes, I guess,

Kyle:

certain, you know, the things that will tend to come more

Kyle:

easily to those planets in the sign and maybe what their

Kyle:

challenges are and then look at the other one and then see how

Kyle:

those two blend or, or how you know, they might if they were

Kyle:

podcasters, and they were both hosting podcasts, how would

Kyle:

their two podcasts combined or You know, insert analogy here.

Kyle:

But sometimes they can, they can be harder to get off the ground.

Kyle:

Just because it's a sextile doesn't mean it's super easy.

Kyle:

And just because it's a sextile doesn't mean it's always that

Kyle:

sort of collaboration is always creating lovely paintings and

Tristan:

artists true. They could be collaborating on making

Tristan:

something very nasty. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, could be

Tristan:

like, if you've got like Mars and Saturn and a sextile. You

Tristan:

know, one is the musician, and the other is the director of a

Tristan:

horror movie. You know, they have these two different skill

Tristan:

sets. One's a composer, the other is a director, but they

Tristan:

can come together and make this movie, but it's also, you know,

Tristan:

a terrifying horror show. Yeah,

Ada:

they could come together to make a bomb in the basement. Oh,

Ada:

yeah.

Kyle:

Exactly. Actually. Oh, man. I'm just remembering. One

Kyle:

of the sextile examples that I want had speaking of people who

Kyle:

make bombs.

Tristan:

Oh, God, here comes on a Kyle's patented example. Sure.

Tristan:

Yeah. So

Kyle:

turning reasonable.

Tristan:

Before you jump into your example, we wanted to use

Tristan:

some actual charts as examples to illustrate the meaning of

Tristan:

these aspects. So if you want to follow along and look at these

Tristan:

charts, I'll have a link in the show notes. That's just a link

Tristan:

because there will be a lot of charts. So it's just one link to

Tristan:

a Google Doc and all of the charts will be contained in that

Tristan:

link. So feel free to click that and follow along. Yeah.

Ada:

I love how organized you are.

Tristan:

I do my best.

Kyle:

Yeah. I want to look up this example real quick. I have

Kyle:

a couple others but Do either of you have just like a really

Kyle:

juicy sextile that you're trying to share and talk about?

Ada:

I would love to talk about Kim Kardashian.

Tristan:

You would also love for you to talk about Kim

Tristan:

Kardashian.

Ada:

So she has a really fascinating sextile between

Ada:

Venus and Mercury she's got Venus at 19 degrees of Virgo and

Ada:

Mercury at 19 degrees of Scorpio. And so you can put

Ada:

those together on a superficial level and just you know you have

Ada:

beautiful communication. And like that is definitely

Ada:

something that she wants to project into the world. I mean

Ada:

she that Venus is in the 10th hole sign house and the the

Ada:

mercury is in the 12th hole sign house and so the Venus is very

Ada:

much wanting to drive in that situation. But the bringing

Ada:

together the signs the the Virgo and the Scorpio you you get this

Ada:

Venus that is not especially comfortable. and is and is

Ada:

pretty picky. And you've got this mercury that has like this.

Ada:

This kind of dark edge and you can see it in her branding. Like

Ada:

she's not like lace and pastels like she's got she wears a lot

Ada:

of black. It's very sleek. It's she's got this intensity about

Ada:

her her brand and her persona. And her her way of communicating

Ada:

that she is beautiful is very, like precise and scripted. And

Ada:

like I'm not going to let you see under the surface any more

Ada:

than I want to like I'm very much in control of my messaging

Ada:

in this situation. And like a classic example of this. Like, I

Ada:

don't watch her reality TV. So I don't know if like Keeping Up

Ada:

With The Kardashians or whatever it is like this. But during her

Ada:

appearance on Saturday night, I have her Venus Mercury sextile

Ada:

was very, very much showing itself like she had a script.

Ada:

She was sitting there and she was reading the script and it

Ada:

was like, I am very much in control of the situation you are

Ada:

seeing exactly what I want you to see. And no more and no less

Ada:

and like every hair was perfectly in place. Like there

Ada:

there were no malfunctions going on anywhere and it was almost

Ada:

like this. Even Even though Scorpio is a water sign there

Ada:

was almost this robotic quality to it because it was just so

Ada:

perfect. It almost fell into the uncanny valley.

Kyle:

I'm just like imagining not that I've watched a ton of

Kyle:

of Keeping Up With The Kardashians, but I'm just I can

Kyle:

see him Kardashians like the look. The looks on her face that

Kyle:

she makes some times where she should like look at somebody and

Kyle:

just it's like she doesn't have to say it. But you you must when

Kyle:

you're We're in the presence of that look being looked at like

Kyle:

that, like know that you're being like, dissected, I don't

Kyle:

know more like you're being like you recognize maybe that what

Kyle:

you're doing is stupid or in poor taste. I like the just the

Kyle:

very refined and maybe very picky taste. That's like a

Kyle:

really good example is Venus in Virgo, I mean, usually is very

Kyle:

constructive, it's kind of constructive work is that, that

Kyle:

perfectionism that creating something really beautiful, very

Kyle:

refined. But then with mercury and Scorpio together so like, I

Kyle:

always think with Mercury in Scorpio is like this sort of

Kyle:

very pitted penetrating kind of intellect. So we know a lot of

Kyle:

mercury ins and Scorpios is one of my favorite Mercury's there's

Kyle:

like a way that they're the words been just like the

Kyle:

intellect is very penetrating. The way that they communicate

Kyle:

even can be very sharp, but like, like low key sharp, like,

Kyle:

like sliding a knife underneath your arm or sort of sharp, I

Kyle:

don't know, like, it's like you don't see it coming. And you

Kyle:

don't necessarily know that you're getting stabbed until you

Kyle:

feel it.

Tristan:

This is a great example. It's a really, really

Tristan:

close sextile. They're both at 19 degrees. And I'm thinking

Tristan:

about one of the common themes that both Scorpio and Virgo

Tristan:

share is control. And I kept hearing you use the word

Tristan:

scripted Aida when you were talking about her. And I feel

Tristan:

like that's such a good word for the whole setup that these two

Tristan:

planets are in with Venus right on the midheaven in the 10th

Tristan:

house in this very public place. And being in this sextile with

Tristan:

mercury. And both in signs that have a lot to do with control

Tristan:

were one thing that these two planets can agree on for sure,

Tristan:

is that whatever is down there in the 12th house, the public

Tristan:

doesn't need to know about it. And whatever the public needs to

Tristan:

know, is only what we want them to know. So I feel like mercury

Tristan:

and Virgo or mercury and Scorpio and Venus and Virgo together,

Tristan:

sort of collaborating on Kim Kardashian, his public image are

Tristan:

going to be really good at coming up with here are the

Tristan:

exact right things to stay, here is the exact right thing to

Tristan:

wear, to create exactly the kind of impression you want. And to

Tristan:

get exactly the kind of reaction from the public, you would like

Tristan:

to get

Kyle:

really interesting about that sextile to is that with

Kyle:

Venus in the 10th house, and the mercury in the 12th it from like

Kyle:

watch the show, it's, you know, it's like having your entire

Kyle:

life basically be a TV show least like the the impression

Kyle:

that I get, it's like everything that they do on on a day to day

Kyle:

basis, or it feels like that. And it's like a lot of the

Kyle:

drama, maybe even to between them. That is being sort of put

Kyle:

up on display. And in my mind that said that seems like a very

Kyle:

vulnerable position to be in, right. It's like your 12th house

Kyle:

matters, like your private affairs, or your private drama,

Kyle:

sort of being put up on display. But like you guys were saying

Kyle:

it's like it's very controlled, really. Like it's like, she's

Kyle:

kind of in control of what we're actually seeing on that reality

Kyle:

show. To a large degree, I would assume.

Tristan:

Yeah, it's interesting having that relationship between

Tristan:

the 12th house and the 10th house because the whole point of

Tristan:

a reality show is there's a certain voyeurism, we want to

Tristan:

see celebrities at their worst, we want to see them. Having

Tristan:

temper tantrums, we want to see them being flawed. The you know,

Tristan:

there's this sort of voyeuristic desire to see the mess and chaos

Tristan:

of other people's lives, especially people who we think

Tristan:

of as very successful. And reality TV is sort of like

Tristan:

indulging that desire a little bit where, you know, it's like

Tristan:

we you know, we get to see people these, you know, big,

Tristan:

bright, successful people sort of at their lowest and their

Tristan:

pettiness, which is very sort of 12th house. It's all this stuff

Tristan:

that you don't necessarily want people to see. But it's it's

Tristan:

kind of an illusion, because at the end of the day reality shows

Tristan:

are still edited. I don't know how unscripted they are to begin

Tristan:

with. I've never been on the set of one so I don't know, but it

Tristan:

is it's sort of like Kim Kardashian is giving you this

Tristan:

feeling that you're like getting this inside look at the most

Tristan:

private, messy aspects of her life, but really, she is the one

Tristan:

pulling the strings.

Ada:

And if it's going to be a mess, it's going to be a

Ada:

beautiful mess.

Tristan:

Exactly.

Kyle:

Artfully messy. I think that's really the appeal of the

Kyle:

show. From what I understand. Yeah, I honestly want to say

Kyle:

more on Kim Kardashian I have what ends up being a totally

Kyle:

impromptu sextile. And actually, there's two sextiles. involved,

Kyle:

do it because you ate ahead to say, you know, you could make a

Kyle:

bomb with the sextile. I will demonstrate this,

Tristan:

you can make a reality TV show with a sex towel or you

Tristan:

can make a bomb. There's no limit to what you can do with

Tristan:

sextiles tell you that sex tiles are a weak aspect. I think

Tristan:

another sort of popular narrative is that they require a

Tristan:

lot of effort. Like you can get stuff done with this textile,

Tristan:

but it requires a ton of effort. And like to a degree,

Kyle:

I get it, like enjoyable effort,

Tristan:

though. But like, yeah, it's like, if you're

Tristan:

sitting down and writing a song like yeah, that's not

Tristan:

necessarily effortless, but it's pleasurable. Like you said,

Tristan:

Kyle, it's not it's not work like a sextile isn't work. I

Tristan:

think that's where the confusion comes in. Where when you say,

Tristan:

oh, a sextile requires more effort than a try and you'll get

Tristan:

the reward, but you need to put in the work. It's not really

Tristan:

work. It's enjoyable time and energy expended. But it's not

Tristan:

work any more than like, if you if your passion is cooking. And

Tristan:

you know, you love cooking more than anything, and you make your

Tristan:

favorite dish that doesn't feel like work. It just feels nice,

Tristan:

and you get the nice reward at the end. So I think that's more

Tristan:

what a sextile is like. And I guess if you're what you really

Tristan:

enjoy doing is making bombs, then Kyle's sextiles will be

Tristan:

relevant here.

Kyle:

Yeah, it looks like work to other people. But you it's

Kyle:

just having a good time. Yeah, so I have the chart here. Can

Kyle:

you guys see my screen figured out? Yes. Because I Yeah, I'm

Kyle:

just pulling this off of Astro seek because I didn't have a pre

Kyle:

loaded but I have a Ted Kaczynski chart. And there's

Kyle:

actually two different birth times that go around for him.

Kyle:

And I kind of lean on this one, I sort of prefer it. But you'll

Kyle:

see two rather close sextiles in his chart, because we have Leo

Kyle:

rising. And he's got quite a Gemini stellium, sun, Saturn,

Kyle:

Uranus, and Mercury and Jupiter. There, Venus in Aries, in the

Kyle:

ninth house, Mars and cancer in the 12th house, and the moon and

Kyle:

Leo in the first house. But the first sextile that talks about

Kyle:

is that you have the sextile between Venus in Aries and

Kyle:

Mercury in Gemini. And Ted Kaczynski was that he was very

Kyle:

super, like super educated. Dude, he was a teacher for a

Kyle:

long time. He's a professor in academia. Actually, you read the

Kyle:

whole thing about tickets and ski recently, Tristan, right?

Tristan:

I haven't got Yeah, he was a Harvard student. And he

Tristan:

coincidentally ended up in an experiment. And I'm forgetting

Tristan:

the name of the researcher offhand. Who did a very

Tristan:

unethical study on stress, where he used undergrads at Harvard as

Tristan:

his test subjects, and essentially just like subjected

Tristan:

them to a whole bunch of psychological torture basically,

Tristan:

like, got to know enough about them to be able to make sort of

Tristan:

really personal verbal attacks on them and stuff like that. And

Tristan:

the whole study was supposed to be examining the effects of

Tristan:

stress on people just so happened that Ted Kaczynski was

Tristan:

one of those undergrads in that experiment. And he harbored a

Tristan:

serious grudge against academics who were often the targets of

Tristan:

his attacks. Yeah, to say that that study was to blame for what

Tristan:

he ended up doing. Obviously, this seed, you know, the, the

Tristan:

potential was already there long before that happened, but

Tristan:

certainly not a good one, not the person that you want in that

Tristan:

kind of study. Not the kind of study you want to be doing at

Tristan:

all. Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah, I mean, crazy, because it well, I don't want to

Kyle:

dive too much into other components of the chart, though,

Kyle:

it's always gonna be important when you're interpreting an

Kyle:

aspect. It's like, you gotta look at in the context of

Kyle:

everything else, of course, but you have Venus in Aries there in

Kyle:

the ninth house, on its own looks like, you know, could be a

Kyle:

difficult experience in the world of education. But also, I

Kyle:

mean, it's been as to so I mean, it's might point to just

Kyle:

something generally, some level of proficiency or some level of

Kyle:

having a significant the ninth house, you know, might indicate

Kyle:

being educated, several indicators, but with Mars in

Kyle:

Cancer in the 12th house, could be an indicator of like a

Kyle:

falling out with, we'll say, in this case, the academic life,

Kyle:

right. But then when you have that sextile with Mercury in

Kyle:

Gemini, which Mercury in Gemini on its own, and this is just

Kyle:

Mercury To which I always want to know what else is relating to

Kyle:

Mercury, because mercury is just sort of game for whatever you

Kyle:

hand to it like, especially in Mercury in Gemini, which is just

Kyle:

curious about everything and just interested in stuff. It'll

Kyle:

just pick up what's around and be like, oh, what can I do with

Kyle:

this? What's what's, what happens when I put, you know,

Kyle:

glycerin and kitty cats together? I don't know like a

Kyle:

nitroglycerin, it's sort of down whatever it's been handed to

Kyle:

with Venus in Aries and that sextile it's like, a love of

Kyle:

actually more literal, a love of bombs, a love of explosions of

Kyle:

love of things that go boom, you know, with Venus in Aries,

Kyle:

sometimes sloth different things that can describe but finding

Kyle:

beauty in destruction will say, and I know a lot of what

Kyle:

motivated his crimes, which were predominantly, especially early

Kyle:

on just mailing bombs to people, very creatively, very creative,

Kyle:

creatively designed bombs. You get Venus ruling the third house

Kyle:

from the ninth house. So I would look at third house, you know,

Kyle:

for mail, like third house stuff that you get every day sort of

Kyle:

daily transit, daily communications, mail, Postal

Kyle:

Service, and then mercury in the 11th house. It was sort of aimed

Kyle:

at. Man, it's been a while since I've read about tickers. insky.

Kyle:

But he had a he was what do you call that when they hate

Kyle:

technology, not a troglodyte. a Luddite? Yeah, like hated

Kyle:

technology. Which is funny because he has Uranus in the Sun

Kyle:

conjunct, but he had this sort of hate of technology. But now

Kyle:

you get this this sense that like there's some ideology,

Kyle:

ideological motivation for what he's doing. Like maybe he likes

Kyle:

things going, boom, but he also had this sort of agenda around,

Kyle:

I kind of just wanted to like, tear down technology. I wish I

Kyle:

remembered now, I don't want to get

Tristan:

a whole an entire manifesto, right when NFS then

Tristan:

he considered himself as social revolutionary.

Kyle:

Thank you,

Tristan:

thank you saw the damage that we were doing to

Tristan:

ourselves in the environment through technology and the

Tristan:

misapplication of science and felt like there's, there's

Tristan:

nothing that can be done other than to try to destroy it.

Kyle:

Once again, interesting, you save the day. That's what I

Kyle:

need to hear is, yeah, it was

Kyle:

one secret this like sort of social revolution is like sort

Kyle:

of anti anti technology, anti society really, which is very,

Kyle:

very 11th House kind of topic. You also get Mercury sextile the

Kyle:

moon very, very closely. And while there's a couple of ways

Kyle:

that you can look at that, the one that's popping out to me is

Kyle:

that it's the ruler of the 12th house, it's sort of ruling the

Kyle:

topic of maybe getting yourself into trouble or, or the just the

Kyle:

general undoing of things. It's not always like you that you're

Kyle:

undoing, but there's like a deconstruction that goes on in

Kyle:

the 12 house and sort of wanting to deconstruct society,

Kyle:

deconstruct the things that society represents things that

Kyle:

especially with the sun ruling the first house, you know, the

Kyle:

moon is sort of carrying the topic of what the Sun is doing

Kyle:

in the 11th house. So it's you know, there's a deconstruction

Kyle:

going on with what society already said it that's it so I

Kyle:

got any thoughts you guys

Ada:

on on the subject of explosions, I cannot stop

Ada:

looking at that. Very close Saturn, sun, Uranus stellium

Ada:

he's got a huge stellium in in Gemini, but those planets are

Ada:

particularly close together. And they are also sextile Pluto. And

Ada:

when I see Saturn, Uranus and the sun together, I think of an

Ada:

explosion happening in a very small contained space like an

Ada:

atomic bomb golf going off in a concrete closet or a package

Ada:

blowing up. Yeah, and it's almost like that Pluto in Leo

Ada:

deep wound to the need for approval. And the psychological

Ada:

manipulation of that professor was the spark that set off the

Ada:

the explosion in the very small space that just the intensity of

Ada:

it was just extraordinary and and like you said, you know,

Ada:

personal responsibility is a thing and you know that

Ada:

experiments should absolutely not have been done. But, you

Ada:

know, just because somebody goes through something like that with

Ada:

the chart that they have doesn't mean that they're going to

Ada:

become, you know, escaped. But on the other hand, you can see

Ada:

how there is a place in his chart where there's like a

Ada:

hairline fracture. And if you put any kind of pressure on it,

Ada:

it's going to break somehow. And that psychological manipulation,

Ada:

triggering that Pluto when that Pluto was in a position where it

Ada:

very much wanted to explode it just yeah, see how things were

Ada:

so tragic.

Kyle:

Yeah, it's interesting, when you think about like, the

Kyle:

Pluto. Two, it's sort of like, just like the universe is like

Kyle:

adding things to the sun. And it's like a sextile between like

Kyle:

the sun and Pluto, Saturn, it's like, cooperative, but like

Kyle:

delivering something kind of like participating in a study

Kyle:

that doesn't go so well. Or that has, you know, ends up being

Kyle:

coercive or manipulative in some way. But then you need to get to

Kyle:

point to is like, it's you can see like, where there could be a

Kyle:

fracture or like stress, but it's like, overall not, it's not

Kyle:

the worst chart I've ever seen by any stretch of the

Kyle:

imagination. In fact, like the sun Saturn conjunction, well, I

Kyle:

would say, you know, potential difficulties there. Especially

Kyle:

Uranus, the sun, and mercury, Saturn, like all basically

Kyle:

within a degree of each other. Think like a very, like a

Kyle:

brilliant, potentially very disciplined academic mind in

Kyle:

Gemini. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And he was really smart dude, a

Kyle:

lot of potential that unfortunately, got channeled in

Kyle:

the wrong direction. But yeah, you can also get that sort of

Kyle:

that sense of social responsibility even to mean so

Kyle:

much in the 11th house. But Saturn two will sort of add that

Kyle:

like layer of wanting to do things on principle, right. And

Kyle:

he had these principles. Be very principle, dude, they're just

Kyle:

ended up being the wrong principles. Right? Yeah. And

Tristan:

I wonder if it wasn't even so much an issue of

Tristan:

principles, because if you look at his manifesto, it's not like

Tristan:

all of his ideas were bad, and a lot of his criticisms of society

Tristan:

and of our misuse of technology. A lot of those criticisms were

Tristan:

very fair. Obviously, his methods were terribly wrong, but

Tristan:

I'm looking at that very, very close sextile between Mercury

Tristan:

and the moon. Mercury is at 22 degrees of Gemini, the Moon is

Tristan:

at 22 degrees of Leo. And the moon represents the common

Tristan:

people. So there's this sort of, you know, the the intelligence

Tristan:

and critical thinking capacity of mercury is sort of working

Tristan:

together with the moon's concern for the common people for

Tristan:

average, everyday people who are being harmed by what people in

Tristan:

power are doing.

Kyle:

Well, yeah, absolutely. I feel like your was a really good

Kyle:

points and I feel like I want to like, dive headfirst into tech

Kyle:

since he's charts. There's a lot we could talk about here. But I

Kyle:

know we wanted to get some other examples in right. We want to do

Kyle:

an episode on texting Taxanes chart.

Ada:

Oh, I could talk about this chart all day.

Kyle:

It's fascinating. Well, I

Ada:

mean, he and I are both Leo rising. So clearly. It's

Ada:

fascinating.

Kyle:

Of course, yeah. Just the most interesting people. They

Kyle:

mean, they usually they usually are very interesting. I think I

Kyle:

wanted to say one thing, though, is that you kind of get with Ted

Kyle:

Kaczynski. There's like a sort of ideological principal

Kyle:

component to what he's doing. But there's kind of a bit of a

Kyle:

an ego that has not met the needs met with the Sun conjunct

Kyle:

Saturn, good for a lot of things, but maybe not for for

Kyle:

Leo rising. Maybe a little, little hard on the ego. Oh,

Kyle:

absolutely. But yeah, so I have other examples, you guys, you

Kyle:

probably have an example or interesting to even get.

Tristan:

I do I have one example. And I feel very self

Tristan:

conscious that my two examples for soft aspects come from my

Tristan:

own personal life. You have a really good one. Well, I just I

Tristan:

haven't really, I have a very close sextile in my chart. And

Tristan:

obviously comparing it back home. Yeah, so the examples I

Tristan:

have for Trine and sextile are both from my own personal life,

Tristan:

but the rest of the examples that I have for all the other

Tristan:

aspects are not their celebrity charts, but my sextile example

Tristan:

comes from my own chart. I have mercury, one degree 16 minutes

Tristan:

of Aries in the 10th house, and I have Venus one degree 51

Tristan:

Minutes of Gemini in the 12th house. And the reason that I

Tristan:

wanted to use my own chart as an example is that I'm so tired of

Tristan:

people saying that sextiles are weak or require a bunch of work.

Tristan:

I think the reason that I get so defensive of sextiles is also

Tristan:

that like, there's a lot of misogyny and systems, a cult

Tristan:

systems that we use that, you know, trace their lineage back

Tristan:

to ancient Greece and medieval Europe and Renaissance Europe

Tristan:

and all that sort of misogyny leaks into this stuff. And the

Tristan:

sextile being the aspect of Venus. I just I don't think that

Tristan:

Venus is weaker than Jupiter. And I don't think that her

Tristan:

aspects would be weaker than Jupiter's aspects. I think that,

Tristan:

you know, Venus is like one of the few feminine faces of

Tristan:

astrology, and I don't like her aspect getting second place, I

Tristan:

don't think that makes sense. So this is this is the hill that I

Tristan:

will die on. The sextiles are great.

Kyle:

Mercury in Aries, sextile Venus, like wanting to defend

Kyle:

Venus with that mercury in Aries.

Tristan:

Like don't don't underestimate Venus do not sleep

Tristan:

on sextiles. And so I wanted to use this one as an example,

Tristan:

because I have Venus in the 12th. House, Natalie. And in

Tristan:

traditional astrology, if a planet is in the 12th house, it

Tristan:

doesn't have a ton of agency. It doesn't have it doesn't tend to

Tristan:

be extremely visible in a person's outer life. That's sort

Tristan:

of traditional interpretation that being in the 12th house

Tristan:

weakens a planet or obscures that planet in some way. And

Tristan:

that never made sense to me looking at my own chart, because

Tristan:

I am a visual artist, I went to art school, I was an art nerd in

Tristan:

high school, I've always been a writer, that was my ambition as

Tristan:

a child was to be a novelist. And I switch to visual art. And

Tristan:

what I'm focusing on presently, is visual art for the most part.

Tristan:

So there has been no point in my life, when I haven't been either

Tristan:

sharing drawings, or mixed media work or writing of some kind.

Tristan:

With the public, none of that stuff is at all concealed about

Tristan:

me. And while I don't think that I'm like a brilliant artist, by

Tristan:

any stretch of the imagination, I'm not bad. You know, it's,

Tristan:

it's not like, I'm terrible at it or anything like that. So

Tristan:

it's just, it didn't make a ton of sense to me for like, Venus

Tristan:

is the planet that is associated with the creative arts that is

Tristan:

associated with this, that x that is associated with drawing

Tristan:

and painting. Why would an artist have been stashed away in

Tristan:

the 12. But there is another interpretive principle that if a

Tristan:

planet is in a house, like the 12, but it's very closely

Tristan:

configured to the midheaven, or it's very closely configured to

Tristan:

a planet that say, in the 10th house, so the first house, that

Tristan:

planet kind of brings the other planet up out of the 12th house,

Tristan:

and into more public view. So I have mercury, all the way at the

Tristan:

top of the sky up in the 10th house making this really close

Tristan:

applying sextile with Venus. And I think it's an example of how a

Tristan:

planet that is, in a very public part of the chart can actually,

Tristan:

via a sextile, kind of reach into the more concealed parts of

Tristan:

the chart and bring what is in there sort of out into the light

Tristan:

and into public view.

Kyle:

Absolutely. And also see how, I don't know, I was just

Kyle:

thinking about how modest you were there, like I'm not, I'm

Kyle:

not not bad, or, like you're good at it, right? But there's

Kyle:

like a modesty there with just think about how Mercury's

Kyle:

receiving Venus as its as its ruler in Gemini. But that

Kyle:

reception is sort of with like Venus is maybe still a little

Kyle:

reluctant to come out sometimes like fool shy, though, because

Kyle:

it's Aries stuff where it's like a little uncomfortable. Like

Kyle:

finding that it's not always like the sextile that like it

Kyle:

maybe comes easier in private but like maybe sharing stuff

Kyle:

with the world. I know you've you've expressed to me like some

Kyle:

hesitancy sometimes we're feeling shyness about like, not

Kyle:

that you don't do it. It's just like a reticence maybe.

Tristan:

Yeah, that I mean, the shyness is definitely there. But

Tristan:

I still, you know, I think it's kind of a testament to sextiles

Tristan:

that I do anyway, you know, this stuff, the stuff that's in the

Tristan:

12th house kind of comes out. Yeah. And a lot of the art that

Tristan:

I've done is very welfarist it's very much about bringing those

Tristan:

things memes out into the open. I think I've talked on a

Tristan:

previous episode about the obsession that I have with

Tristan:

themes of sacrifice and being at peace with suffering and art

Tristan:

both in the art that I make and in the art that I enjoy. Yeah, I

Tristan:

remember talking about one of my favorite works of art is the

Tristan:

sculpture that depicts the ecstasy of Saint Teresa, where

Tristan:

she had this vision of an angel driving a spear into her heart

Tristan:

repeatedly. And she felt like both this intense suffering

Tristan:

during this vision, but also the most profound ecstasy and sense

Tristan:

of union with the divine, and I just, I ate that shit up. I love

Tristan:

that kind of stuff. So and that feels very, like how do you deal

Tristan:

with the 12th house to deal with the 12th house you need, you

Tristan:

need a center, you need a center that you can enter into where

Tristan:

you have unconditional peace, where it doesn't matter what

Tristan:

external circumstances are happening, you are still able to

Tristan:

access that place of peace. So I think that theme being really

Tristan:

present in the art I consume and the art I make is maybe an

Tristan:

example of the 10th house and the 12th house, working together

Tristan:

in the sort of creative and artistic way. And you wouldn't

Tristan:

necessarily expect those two things to blend. But there they

Tristan:

are able to to blend together through the medium of art. And I

Tristan:

think it's something that you see in a lot of artists works.

Tristan:

And a lot of poetry is sort of being able to reach into the

Tristan:

more challenging aspects of human experience, and create

Tristan:

something that's meaningful and beautiful. And that helps us to

Tristan:

cope. It helps us to process really difficult stuff. You

Tristan:

know, when you watch a sad movie, it helps you process

Tristan:

feelings of grief, when you watch a horror movie, it helps

Tristan:

you to process feelings of fear and sort of a safe space. It's a

Tristan:

way of confronting those 12 House realities in a way that

Tristan:

allows us to make meaning out of them and sort of make peace with

Tristan:

them. In a sense, I guess,

Ada:

so hard for me to not pull in your Chiron in the 12th as

Ada:

you're talking about this, but I'm not going to do it.

Tristan:

I know this is the one problem with using charts as

Tristan:

examples, because you're trying to just focus in on one aspect.

Tristan:

But there's so much else going on. Like because Minsky's chart,

Tristan:

and Kardashians chart, there's a lot of fascinating stuff you can

Tristan:

talk about in both of those. Yeah.

Kyle:

Thank you for reminding me what one of the original

Kyle:

intentions of how we wanted to approach this, which was talking

Kyle:

about the like aspects, getting good examples of aspects between

Kyle:

different houses, and signs and stuff. And one of the things

Kyle:

that we're talking about that kind of got me thinking about

Kyle:

why those sextiles maybe you get like the eighth and 12th, house

Kyle:

sextile, the 10th house. And those that 10th House ends up,

Kyle:

like you were mentioning, when you have a nice aspect between

Kyle:

the 10th house when in the 10th house or like the midheaven sort

Kyle:

of helps give planets in those houses and anchor, right. And

Kyle:

one of the things with the 12th house, it's actually like kind

Kyle:

of drawing on, like the traditional interpretation,

Kyle:

which was this idea that actually sometimes abduction was

Kyle:

referred to right ancients, it's the 12th house because the

Kyle:

planet is being carried away from the ascendant from the

Kyle:

rising. And time and time again, 12th house planets show up to

Kyle:

me, it's like getting carried away with stuff getting carried

Kyle:

away with what that planets doing. But one of the ways that

Kyle:

that can work out more favorably is it has a sextile, say, with

Kyle:

the 10th house is it's like getting that getting carried

Kyle:

away as with your work or something that you, you know,

Kyle:

serves your work, something that serves what you do, but also

Kyle:

being anchored in something that you can see. So like, maybe

Kyle:

having access to the off switch, right when when you need it when

Kyle:

you need when you realize when you remember that you have a

Kyle:

body and it needs to be fed been drawing for 12 hours or

Kyle:

something.

Tristan:

Yeah, that went well. And I mean, that's something I

Tristan:

can personally relate to. Because when I get into a

Tristan:

creative headspace, it's very hard to remember that I need to

Tristan:

get up and move around. Because sitting for eight and a half

Tristan:

hours straight is really bad for you that I need to eat. And I

Tristan:

think that can be part of the relationship between the 12th.

Tristan:

And the 10th house in general, is, you know, the 12th house is

Tristan:

where we lose ourselves and the 10th house is work and legacy

Tristan:

and all that stuff. And that is a place where people can lose

Tristan:

themselves and also that like I think about people who are like

Tristan:

really, really driven. And one of the chart examples I'm going

Tristan:

to use is actually an example of someone who is very driven and

Tristan:

probably sacrificed a lot of other aspects of his life in

Tristan:

order to pursue those drives. But in the 10th house, we're

Tristan:

very driven in the 12th house, we make sacrifices and we

Tristan:

isolate ourselves and people who accomplish incredible things

Tristan:

often had to sacrifice You know, having a social life having a

Tristan:

happy relationship, having a family having balance in their

Tristan:

lives, you know, sort of undoing yourself, you know, not not

Tristan:

sleeping like was it Newton who kept the most ridiculous hours

Tristan:

and hardly slept, and he was like a polyphasic sleep or

Tristan:

something. And I'd like everything else, you know, my

Tristan:

pursuit of natural philosophy is more important than anything

Tristan:

else. And all of the other aspects of my life can, you

Tristan:

know, be put on the backburner for the sake of this cause I'm

Tristan:

really driven towards. So that's like, you know, that

Tristan:

relationship between the 10th and the 12th. Maybe where we

Tristan:

undo ourselves a little bit in pursuit of our 10th House goals.

Ada:

I think that it's really interesting that you've got

Ada:

Venus in Gemini in the 12th. Because, you know, we were

Ada:

talking earlier about how Venus is a relational quality, or

Ada:

maybe I was thinking about it, and we weren't actually talking

Ada:

about it. But Venus, Venus needs to relate. And the 12th house is

Ada:

about being by yourself, and Gemini needs to communicate. And

Ada:

the 12th house is about silence. And so it's like, you've got, I

Ada:

get this mental image of mercury holding down a hand like you

Ada:

don't really belong here. Let me let me pull you up like you were

Ada:

saying before, because like, Venus in Gemini is not naturally

Ada:

a place where Venus is particularly uncomfortable,

Ada:

like, Venus doesn't have a ton of dignity, there but doesn't

Ada:

have the ability either. Putting it in, in the 12th house, makes

Ada:

it rather uncomfortable just because of its significations in

Ada:

the significations of Gemini and so it's almost like I imagined

Ada:

Venus looking at Mercury and being like, Oh, thank goodness,

Ada:

my Savior.

Tristan:

Mercury is the extroverted friend who's kind of

Tristan:

pulling, I think if if you're looking at your own chart, and

Tristan:

you've got you know, a planet in the 10th, in a sextile, with a

Tristan:

planet in the 12th, or the eighth, that planet is the

Tristan:

extroverted friends to your planet in the 12th of the

Tristan:

eighth, that's kind of like, you know, you're hanging out by the

Tristan:

wall, not talking to anybody, I know that you're really into

Tristan:

stamp collecting, and there's somebody here who's also really

Tristan:

into stamp collecting, and they have these really rare stamps

Tristan:

that you're absolutely going to want to hear about. So I'm going

Tristan:

to introduce you to them, and that's the planet in your 10th

Tristan:

house is doing for those planets in the eighth and 12th, it's

Tristan:

like, I'm gonna go introduce you to the person you have something

Tristan:

in common with, and you're gonna have something to do at this

Tristan:

party, you can peel your back off of the wall and come and

Tristan:

join.

Ada:

I love that.

Kyle:

All right, I'm just gonna say final thing, maybe about

Kyle:

just planets in the 12th house in general, is that they don't

Kyle:

always show up as being not visible, they're often not only

Kyle:

visible, but doing a lot of things that are just the kind of

Kyle:

things that are like it not being about you or maybe not in

Kyle:

your personal interest, which isn't always negative. Sometimes

Kyle:

it can work against you. Sometimes it's just working for

Kyle:

others, you know.

Tristan:

And I think I liked that you brought in aspects

Tristan:

between houses, because I think those can be really good

Tristan:

illustrations of what the aspects mean. And I think it's

Tristan:

relevant to the point you just made. The eighth and the 12

Tristan:

houses form a sextile with the 10th house. And at first that

Tristan:

seems counterintuitive. Why would there be this positive,

Tristan:

constructive, collaborative, harmonious relationship between

Tristan:

the eighth house and the 10th House or the 12th house and the

Tristan:

10th house. And I think it comes down to this stuff that's in the

Tristan:

eighth and the 12th house is difficult. And something that

Tristan:

makes difficult things more manageable is when you're able

Tristan:

to find a sense of purpose connected to them. And the

Tristan:

eighth and the 12th. Also, you know, don't just have to do with

Tristan:

your own suffering and your own challenges they have to do with

Tristan:

the suffering and challenges of other people like Kyle was

Tristan:

saying they have to do service. So you know, like, a lot of

Tristan:

professions are based on doing stuff that other people don't

Tristan:

want to do because it's unpleasant, or helping people

Tristan:

deal with unpleasant stuff, like how many professions are

Tristan:

plumbing, psychotherapy, medicine. So many professions

Tristan:

are about repairing things that are broken, or taking out

Tristan:

garbage, whether metaphorically or literally. And so the 10th

Tristan:

house is actually sort of like giving things in the 12th on the

Tristan:

eighth the purpose and also like helping people who are sort of

Tristan:

stuck in those places to navigate being in those places.

Tristan:

You can, you know, be a paramedic and you're dealing

Tristan:

with eighth and 12th house stuff all the time but you're also

Tristan:

like doing a very important and essential service for the world

Tristan:

and and You know, you're known in your community as somebody

Tristan:

who does that, which is very 10th House thing.

Ada:

I love that you're bringing up the idea of assistance here,

Ada:

because as we were looking at different interpretations of the

Ada:

12th house, one of the potential interpretations of the 12th

Ada:

house is that it's something that is painfully obvious to

Ada:

everybody but you about you, and having mercury in the 10th

Ada:

house, seeing Venus in the 12th. So clearly, Mercury is your

Ada:

perceiving function. So it allows you to see almost like,

Ada:

the back of your neck, like you've got this, this mirror

Ada:

system that's allowing you to see something about yourself

Ada:

that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see. And it really

Ada:

stands out because like, you know, you, you have this

Ada:

artistic vocation. And I think that a lot of people with Venus

Ada:

in the 12th house would like, you know, be making these

Ada:

incredible paintings or what have you. And people would be

Ada:

like, you have a calling, and they'd be like, what, but you

Ada:

can see it, you can own it, and you have all your life, I think

Ada:

that that mercury is, is giving you an assist there.

Tristan:

Don't sleep on sextiles. This is the moral of

Tristan:

the story, the sextiles make the eighth and the 10th house work

Tristan:

together, they make small from the 10th house work together.

Tristan:

They make all kinds of stuff work together that at first

Tristan:

glance, you wouldn't think that'll work, and then you hear

Tristan:

it. Like, I'm trying to think of the first person who thought it

Tristan:

was a good idea to put like percussion and singing together.

Tristan:

Somebody was like literally banging, like making banging

Tristan:

noises, and someone else's singing and you're like, how do

Tristan:

those things go together? And next thing, you know, you have a

Tristan:

song and people are dancing. Yeah.

Kyle:

Let me think that that part of what makes somebody a

Kyle:

good dancer is the ability to forget themselves or to let go

Kyle:

lose control.

Ada:

So if we suddenly find a political action group that is

Ada:

fighting for sextiles writes

Kyle:

about mercury in Aries wants to to be very active about

Kyle:

defending Oh, yes, yes. And it just occurred to me that you

Kyle:

have the opposite basically of Ted Kaczynski, where Texans can

Kyle:

Venus in Aries and Mercury in Gemini. And I don't know if

Kyle:

you'd like playing with fire at all.

Ada:

Well, I have Mercury and Venus co President Aries,

Ada:

Mercury and Mars in a mutual reception at that Mars in

Ada:

Gemini. Fire. I do like to play with fire too. I love beautiful

Ada:

weapons. As long as they're peace tide.

Kyle:

I like Battlefield scenes. Yes. So cool. So

Kyle:

beautiful. Anyway,

Tristan:

for all of our examples have been Venus Mercury

Tristan:

sextiles.

Kyle:

I know I was I have I have another I've actually a

Kyle:

couple of sextiles in one chart that have nothing to do with

Kyle:

Mercury or Venus. Right? Yeah, I do. Let me show ya. So I have

Kyle:

Mary Shelley's birth chart. Oh, big fan. She was an author in

Kyle:

the early 18th century, one of the few women to get published

Kyle:

around that time. It's actually rather rather impressive that

Kyle:

she managed to accomplish it at that time, not a time where they

Kyle:

were publishing women. But she say a cancer rising. For

Kyle:

everyone that looks like it was pretty well documented. First

Kyle:

time. Cancer rising two degrees with Saturn in cancer in the

Kyle:

first house. And nine degrees. You got a pretty packed third

Kyle:

house, Mars, the sun, Uranus and Mercury in Virgo. And then in

Kyle:

the fourth house, you have Venus in Libra. And there's other

Kyle:

planets. But what I wanted to focus on first was there is a

Kyle:

pretty close sextile with Saturn in Mary's first house, nine

Kyle:

degrees of cancer and the sun in Virgo at seven degrees in the

Kyle:

third house. And one of the ways that you can look at that is

Kyle:

like okay, she was a writer first house third house

Kyle:

connection. You know, you have also Saturn ruling the seventh

Kyle:

house as well as the eighth house and the son ruling the

Kyle:

second house and she was basically able to do Right and

Kyle:

basically able to be supportive while she did that, because of

Kyle:

her marriage, she was married to somebody who's fairly well off.

Kyle:

And even. Actually, after he died, she inherited a pretty

Kyle:

good amount of money was able to more or less sustain herself. So

Kyle:

one of the ways that that kind of works and then you also have

Kyle:

the sun in a sextile with Neptune, like it's pretty

Kyle:

Neptune in Scorpio in the fifth house. It's actually pretty

Kyle:

tight Sun plying within a degree just about Yeah. Well, some

Kyle:

degree sextile with Neptune and Neptune is in the fifth house in

Kyle:

Scorpio. And I'm just thinking about Frankenstein. And just

Kyle:

this sort of like, fantastic sort of horror novel that she

Kyle:

wrote. And the the sextile between the third and the fifth

Kyle:

house. Creative Writing, in this case, like a sort of fantastic

Kyle:

horror novel.

Ada:

Rather dreamlike.

Kyle:

Yeah, yeah. Does.

Ada:

It came to her in a dream.

Kyle:

Did it? Oh, really? It is? Yeah. Interesting.

Ada:

They were doing a Writing Challenge. They were in this

Ada:

creepy old house and they were bored and it was storming. And

Ada:

everybody was like, let's write horror stories. And that's why

Ada:

they're most of the famous writers in the group just kind

Ada:

of screwed around with it and didn't really take it seriously.

Ada:

The doctor like the group's Doctor ended up writing one of

Ada:

the first vampire novels, which really inspired Bram Stoker and

Tristan:

Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu. Carmela

Ada:

No, it was called the vampire PYR. II. Okay, yeah. And

Ada:

Mary Shelley was, she really wanted to do this. She was super

Ada:

enthusiastic. And she got frustrated that she couldn't

Ada:

think of any ideas. And she went to bed. And she dreamed the

Ada:

story of Frankenstein. And she claims that she just wrote down

Ada:

what she dreamed.

Tristan:

That's very cool.

Kyle:

That's interesting. And third,

Tristan:

that you see another good example of a sextile

Tristan:

between houses where the third house has a lot to do with

Tristan:

writing and communication. And the fifth house has a lot to do

Tristan:

with creativity and works of artistic merit. And you have a

Tristan:

bunch of planets in the third and a planet in the fifth.

Tristan:

communicating with each other through that sextile. And you

Tristan:

get writing from dreams.

Kyle:

Yeah, like how to its third house is just kind of like

Kyle:

hanging out too, with like, people around you, like your

Kyle:

boats maybe. And like that sort of served as inspiration like,

Kyle:

hey, let's write a horror novel. And then she slept on it and out

Kyle:

popped. Frankenstein.

Ada:

And I love the connection with that Uranus right there.

Ada:

Uranus. And electricity is like a common thing. And electricity

Ada:

is like a an important. Oh, yeah. Wait, and Frankenstein.

Ada:

Sounds pretty close to inspiration. Yeah.

Tristan:

I like the that you pointed out that house rulers

Tristan:

too. I think that's another important thing to think about

Tristan:

when you're interpreting your own sextiles. If you see a

Tristan:

sextile between two planets, what houses to those planets

Tristan:

rule where Mary Shelley's got the sun in Virgo ruling her

Tristan:

second house and Saturn and cancer ruling her seventh house

Tristan:

and was able to pursue this career because of benefits from

Tristan:

her relationship like money from her relationships. So you've got

Tristan:

the ruler of money and the ruler of relationship sextile so I

Tristan:

love I love that example. Kyle, that's really good. It's it's

Tristan:

very helpful when you're interpreting sextiles in your

Tristan:

own chart of you're sort of like what are those planets have to

Tristan:

do with each other look at the houses that they roll and the

Tristan:

topics of those houses and see if those topics in your own life

Tristan:

mesh in some way if maybe you've had opportunities, because of a

Tristan:

combination of those topics,

Ada:

I think is really interesting that both of the

Ada:

rulers have the third and the fifth are in the third house.

Ada:

Mercury rules Virgo and Mars rules Scorpio.

Kyle:

Yeah, I know it's like at all it's like Mars and the Sun

Kyle:

are together. It's like ruling that fifth house. One of the

Kyle:

ways you can look at the sun because I have a habit of

Kyle:

getting too wrapped up in like the houses the planet rules and

Kyle:

I'll forget about the planet sometimes. But the Sun just

Kyle:

being sort of a sort of the mind and like that, that sort of that

Kyle:

sense of knowing and like having so much sort of under the beams

Kyle:

of the sun like within that light. While you may not

Kyle:

necessarily see the planet like the sun knows what's going on

Kyle:

there and sometimes is able to communicate that in a more

Kyle:

effective way. Huh? So I got me oh

Tristan:

yeah, I prepared one example for each aspect. Okay,

Tristan:

that's fine so that we didn't end up doing an hour press but I

Kyle:

didn't even get into which we did today. One I was

Kyle:

going to talk about kind Lima No, but yeah, we should we

Kyle:

should wrap it up. Because we've already talked about sextile for

Kyle:

like an hour, and I think this is probably going to be part

Kyle:

one, which is fine. Fine with me. Yeah, I'm enjoying this,

Kyle:

sir. Oh, yeah, this is gonna be fun.

Ada:

If this ends up being like a 12 part series or something?

Ada:

Aspects

Kyle:

Yeah, we'll wrap it up for today. And I wanted to say

Kyle:

thank you so much for joining us, Ada. Having me. My pleasure.

Kyle:

How, you know, what do you have going on? Oh,

Ada:

goodness. So I am wrapping up two courses that I'm

Ada:

teaching, this is actually a really great opportunity to jump

Ada:

in on them. If you're, well, obviously, you're interested in

Ada:

learning astrology because you're you're listening to this

Ada:

podcast by that a reduction to astrology class and the chart

Ada:

interpretation course, and they're subscription based on

Ada:

Patreon. And if you're an overachiever who likes to binge

Ada:

on lectures, you can kind of jump in at the tail end and get

Ada:

like, all of the lectures that I've given so far without having

Ada:

to wait for me to release them on a monthly schedule, and you

Ada:

can get them quite a bit cheaper. So you can find that on

Ada:

patreon@patreon.com slash eat at Pembroke.

Kyle:

Yeah, I'm a member of his Patreon. I highly recommend it

Kyle:

because he had a cool T chat yesterday and a lot of cool

Kyle:

discussions going on and I saw your awesome bookcase. And the

Kyle:

reason that's the first thing I think about because I super

Kyle:

jealous of the bookcase that you have in your room. It's the

Kyle:

whole wall. It's like literally what I dream of, I want a wall

Kyle:

that is just a bookcase.

Ada:

It is my favorite thing in the universe. And I was so happy

Ada:

that you were able to make our cosmic tea party yesterday.

Kyle:

It was nice, joyful, do more things like that. Well,

Kyle:

anything you care to tell the world about Tristan,

Tristan:

not really. I will have a link to my Instagram in

Tristan:

the show notes. And that's about it for me. And I would also like

Tristan:

to second Kyle's recommendation to sign up for Adas Patreon. I'm

Tristan:

also a patron and I've loved every minute of it. There's lots

Tristan:

of great lectures, and the discord server is fantastic. So

Tristan:

get in on that. You guys are the best. We're just telling the

Tristan:

truth.

Ada:

Yeah, but I like the only topic. Yeah.

Kyle:

Yeah, well for me. Forget what I want to say about my

Kyle:

stuff. But you know, you can always always book a reading

Kyle:

with me on my website cop. Strongly sure.com It's not

Kyle:

astrology anymore, astrologer cuz yeah, that's what I am. And

Kyle:

just go to my website and you'll see everything that I'm doing. I

Kyle:

have a separate events calendar. So you know, you can stay tuned

Kyle:

to where I will be appearing in the world. But also included on

Kyle:

that calendar is our the rooms for our group, the three of

Kyle:

wands on the clubhouse app.

Tristan:

So Kyle and I and our friend Shay, who you may

Tristan:

remember from the houses series, we did have a clubhouse club on

Tristan:

the clubhouse app, obviously, called the three of wands,

Tristan:

there'll be a link in the show notes. There are a couple of

Tristan:

different rooms that we do. But one that I definitely want to

Tristan:

let you know about is the astrology report that Kyle and I

Tristan:

do every other Friday at 6pm Eastern time. So we get together

Tristan:

and we just talk about the transits coming up for the next

Tristan:

couple of weeks and what kinds of themes they represent. So if

Tristan:

you want to hear more of Carl and I talking about astrology,

Tristan:

and also have an opportunity to talk back at us, please download

Tristan:

the clubhouse app and join us every other Friday. Do it.

Ada:

That sounds amazing.

Kyle:

Good time. We always have fun. I feel bad though, because

Kyle:

we missed the taro room today to record.

Tristan:

Yes Also, if you're a fan of taro, our good friend

Tristan:

Shay hosts taro travels every Thursday at 6pm Eastern time.

Tristan:

And that is a really fun room where we get together we talk

Tristan:

about each tarot card in the deck, one at a time. And we

Tristan:

share stories from our own lives about the themes of the cards.

Tristan:

So it's a nice way to learn Tarot through people's personal

Tristan:

narratives, I find is a really useful tool. It's a lot more fun

Tristan:

than just like memorizing a bunch of key words or whatever

Tristan:

other strategies you might run into for learning Tarot So

Tristan:

definitely join that.

Kyle:

Really we're the one stop shop for all your divination

Kyle:

needs. Why would you go anywhere else? Yeah, well, we'll call it

Kyle:

a day and I can't wait for next time when we get into some more

Kyle:

of them, which we're gonna do next. Right. We'll get into

Kyle:

trains probably.

Tristan:

Yeah, I think well, my whole plan has been. My plans

Tristan:

are finished. was to do sextiles and trines. Back to back. Oh,

Tristan:

yeah. But that's okay. We will end on sextiles and begin on

Tristan:

trines for the next episode. I always have so much more to say

Tristan:

than planned on but I know. That's

Kyle:

why you love us. That's why you keep coming back and

Kyle:

listening and leaving reviews. And we'll see you all next time.

Tristan:

Thank you for listening. And thank you again,

Tristan:

Aida for joining us. Thank you. If you have a question you would

Tristan:

like to hear answered on astrology hotline. Email us at

Tristan:

astrology hot klein pod@gmail.com

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About the Podcast

Astrology Hotline
The Podcast that Answers All Your Burning Birth Chart and Astrology Questions
Astrology Hotline is the podcast that answers all your burning birth chart and astrology questions. Hosted by astrologer Kyle Pierce, the show provides an open forum for listeners to have their questions answered and facilitate discussions about a broad range of topics with guests including some of astrology's most up-and-coming astrologers. Whatever it is that has you stumped when it comes to astrology or your birth chart, Astrology Hotline is here to get you the answers your looking for. Send us your questions at astrologyhotlinepod@gmail.com.

About your host

Profile picture for Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce is a Professional Astrologer with an inclusive approach based primarily on Hellenistic techniques. He lives in Michigan.