Inceptions, Elections and Wedding Fiascos

Kyle Pierce: 00:00:05

Hello, and welcome to astrology hotline podcast where we answer all your burning birth chart and astrology questions. I'm Kyle Pierce. And joining me today is Joe G. Just Joe G yo, G. I'm used to just saying Joe G. But I feel like introducing, you're gonna be like, Joe G like that.

Joe G.: 00:00:24

Yes, yeah, it is a really confusing thing. Because when I wanted to be a musician, I wanted to put it all together to make it one warrant. That was cool. But then I realized a lot of other people had that same idea. And then switching into astrology person. I had to make it less cool and more like, you know, my name is Joe.

Kyle Pierce: 00:00:45

I like it. I mean, it's like memorable. It's kind of like Sting, you know? Except with like, like Sting plus, you know, it's not as pretentious. monosyllabic word. That's

Joe G.: 00:00:59

true. That's true. Just God my name.

Kyle Pierce: 00:01:06

But it's memorable, you know? Or at least I'd hope so. Because listeners may recall that you joined us for the planets episode.

Joe G.: 00:01:15

Yeah, talking about budgeting. Sexy Jupiter and Venus. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce: 00:01:21

Yes. So I was thinking we'd bring you back for this question, because I think it's, it's very appropriate for your particular skill set. But I'm foregoing our usual banter mark just engrossed into Aries recently. And, and just curious how you're feeling about that. How are you enjoying it?

Joe G.: 00:01:43

Me personally? Yeah. I'm enjoying it wouldn't look right word. But I am utilizing it. That's for sure. I'm using what's available. Would I rather have Jupiter in Pisces still problem? Actually, that might, I might retract that statement. Just because I do love Jupiter in Aries. I'm just not so stoked about Mars in Aries. So maybe if Mars could just like, I don't know, be somewhere

Kyle Pierce: 00:02:20

I mean, I tend to like using air quotes. Mars when it's dignified. Like is a strong word. I'm usually very productive and I have more energy. I don't end up sleeping very much. It's like my insomnia. Like came back real strong. The second Mars got into into Aries right. But actually kind of like Jupiter in Aries because I sort of feel underwhelmed a little bit with like, Jupiter and

Joe G.: 00:03:08

And like, especially right now, because Jupiter will pretty much stay super dignified. The whole time. It's in Aries this year. Yeah. Stays in those first degrees. And I think it stations at eight degrees. Aries stations retrograde. So I think it only has like a couple of degrees where it's not like super juiced up. I think it's from Oh, yeah, no, it's quite a few degrees. And we'll go

Kyle Pierce: 00:03:56

Yeah, we get like a whole year of just extra hot, steamy, wet, humid, or Aries juice.

Joe G.: 00:04:03

This whole whole Jupiter Jupiter situation, which is not the topic of the podcast. But this whole Jupiter situation has been so interesting because for the past few years, we're always we're always getting like Jupiter half and assign half and another sign and then of Retrogrades and foreshadows the next year so it's and I find it so funny because Jupiter as a significant or of hope and

Kyle Pierce: 00:04:44

Yeah, yeah. Actually, we're gonna go back to the thing we were doing last year again. Yeah, no. A lot of that.

Joe G.: 00:04:51

I'm excited for this conjunction. Mars Jupiter conjunction, new synaptic cycle. Last one was in Capricorn was gross. Oh, I'm playing with a Aries on

Kyle Pierce: 00:05:02

for sure. Yeah, I feel like I mean, I like I like the good parts of Mars. I feel like this is a good, it's good Mars time. You know, that can be not great sometimes. But for some, for for most of us, you know, we can use that Mars energy a little more constructively. I would say.

Joe G.: 00:05:21

That's actually even though this was not the topic of the podcast at all, I think talking about Mars to that extent was actually very beneficial, because sort of rather Marzieh story in these charts over and over and over again.

Kyle Pierce: 00:05:35

Yeah, our question for today comes from ash, I will allow our listener ash to introduce the question.

Listener Ash: 00:05:47

Hi, astrology hotline. Love your show. So I have a bit of a weird question for you, too. I'm trying to understand a past event in 2017. My partner and I were planning on getting married. However, we kept on running into strange barriers. For example, even though we called our parents to announce our engagement, both sets of our parents seemed to keep forgetting that the wedding was

Kyle Pierce: 00:06:58

I love this question. I just want to say thank you, Ash for sending this in and actually sending in the audio. Yeah. And just all other listeners who are considering sending in a question. Well, it is not required that you send it in audio, I feel like Ash just just up the standard. So I feel like you guys better. You better bring it you better. This new format.

Joe G.: 00:07:25

I'm Mason and then the question, actually,

Kyle Pierce: 00:07:27

yeah, do please. More and more questions. I want to be able to be questions I just want to be be showered in them.

Joe G.: 00:07:37

So the whole town catches on fire.

Kyle Pierce: 00:07:43

I love about this question. And while it's I mean, you know, of course, you know, I'm sorry to hear that it didn't go well, obviously, I'm really glad to hear that you guys are still together. And the attitude around it is really positive. But what I sort of enjoy about this is, is that it's like the universe just didn't want you to get married, right then. Right? And that's like

Joe G.: 00:08:09

I just find it like, so fascinating. Because this, this is one of those questions where if you were to ask it in a non astrological setting, to well, if like a scientist, let's say a scientist would have a whole bunch of astrologers in there, like, what would you think is the planet and configuration that would cause a whole town to catch on fire? And everyone of course would say

Kyle Pierce: 00:08:51

I love how like listening to the question. I can't even remember like, what I probably would have said, pre astrology. Kyle. Pre astrology I would have said he would have said, you know, don't get married just elope. Like to avoid the whole the whole thing, which, you know, could could be an option, but I'm also Yeah, the astrologer brain kicks on and you start imagining like, oh,

Joe G.: 00:09:29

Oh, for sure. Mars iron, for sure. Mars and the Sun. which funnily enough, we do have that. Should we talk about the chart because I'm really excited to talk about this one.

Kyle Pierce: 00:09:42

Yeah, let's, so we actually ash actually shared with us. We have several charts in this, which I love. This is a complex sort of map. We're going to try to make some sense and to keep thinking of that meme of Charlie from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where?

Joe G.: 00:10:03

Oh, yes, yes.

Kyle Pierce: 00:10:06

And we try to do a lower key version of that. But yeah, let's start with the, with the chart for the the engagement, right or the cancel

Joe G.: 00:10:17

engagement. Okay. I wanted to start with the cancel wedding because it's like the most immediate

Kyle Pierce: 00:10:23

thing. Well, you're, you know, you're actually him, let's do this. It's gonna make sense. We'll start with the event. We're like, break it down, start with the scene of the crime, and then we will work backwards. Yes. All right. Yeah, I'm gonna highly recommend that listeners, look at this chart. Look at the show notes. There's a bunch of charts and to really piece it all together,

Joe G.: 00:10:50

I was actually going to ask you, what was like, the first thing that really, like spoke to you about the shard when you first looked at it,

Kyle Pierce: 00:10:58

um, the first thing that popped out that might pop out of my head was, well, you have Mars, the North Node and the sun in the 11th. House and Leo, just altogether, Mars at 20 degrees, North loads at 23 degrees. Sun's at 27. So you know, hot, sort of chaotic planets, all in a fire sign together. But then you have the moon applying to all three of them. It's at about 13 degrees, Leo.

Joe G.: 00:11:31

wake me Moon was 10 degrees Leo.

Kyle Pierce: 00:11:33

So when I'm canceled wedding, I put the chart in right. August 20.

Joe G.: 00:11:39

Maybe I put 18. Or it's August 20 2017. I have a typo.

Kyle Pierce: 00:11:48

When that happens? I had such an episode.

Joe G.: 00:11:54

All of a sudden, now it makes Yeah. Now it makes it so much more. I also have the moon in there.

Kyle Pierce: 00:12:01

Yeah. Now Now you're I know. It's funny how like, you'll I've done this before where I've looked up a chart. And it's like, oh, yeah, I see the story in this. But then I find out I've got the wrong chart. And I'm like, be disappointed or something. But then I look at the actual chart. And I'm like, oh, yeah, this is so much more, more descriptive.

Joe G.: 00:12:26

And this one I like a lot. Because the previous one, the one that I was looking at was August 10. And you'd have a moon in the sixth house in Pisces. And to me, it was a little bit intriguing, because I was like, Huh, why would the moon be in Pisces in the syntax for a wedding? I feel like that doesn't make much sense. So I was trying to go for a little bit of a stretch, and

Kyle Pierce: 00:13:19

this is like an eclipse. Oh, wow. to happen is actually that, that? No, this was not the big eclipse in Leo. Right now. That was 2008. Now this is this was except the big eclipse. The one the the great eclipse in North America.

Joe G.: 00:13:36

The American one. I think so. Right. That sounds about right.

Kyle Pierce: 00:13:39

Wow. That's, I mean, almost aside from the wedding, perfect, like a big fire. Wildfire occurred. Hmm, I didn't hear about that. Because it's funny. But yeah, that was like, a huge Eclipse. But

Joe G.: 00:13:55

were you into astrology at that point already, like, heavily into it?

Kyle Pierce: 00:13:59

Not as have no, I was like, that was like, actually, right. When I was starting to get heavily into it. I had like, some familiarity with it. And it was like kind of grabbing my attention and like calling to me. And it was maybe a month or two after this.

Joe G.: 00:14:16

Right? I'm asking my managers because like usually, now that I know that I'm gonna show up. And I'm sure you relate to that to you. I can remember it news events. So well. Oh, yeah, I know. There's so much more. There was a fire at this time.

Kyle Pierce: 00:14:31

Yeah. It makes no like the world has gotten more interesting. People have gotten more interesting. Everything happens in the world is more interesting because I have the context of astrology to sort of hold it all together, or, I don't know to assign some sort of meaning to it, because otherwise it just seems like stuff.

Joe G.: 00:14:52

And I think that this trade actually illustrates her really well to also see how like an event that is, quote unquote negative is also like part of the plan, like the big picture plan.

Kyle Pierce: 00:15:08

Yeah, let me I want to go over the charts so that people know what we're talking about if they're not looking at it. So Libra rising chart, with Jupiter, in Libra, about 20 degrees Fahrenheit about eight degrees of mercury in the 12th house total sign house at eight degrees of Virgo sun at 27 degrees of Leo, north node at 23 degrees of Leo Mars at 20 degrees of Leo, the moon 13

Joe G.: 00:16:04

Right. So one of the things that I was going to talk about just on the topic of eclipses, because I was writing horoscopes for the eclipse that just passed as we're recording this Oh, yeah, we're recording within the, the lunar cycle of the first eclipse of the year. And whenever it came to cancer Capricorn, I was always, like really unsure how to interpret eclipses in the 11th in the

Kyle Pierce: 00:16:36

You

Joe G.: 00:16:38

You're naturally tend to soften things up. And I think that this conception chart does show a little bit of what can happen when you have like malefic signatures in the good places where something bad related to something good happens. But even the bad thing that happens itself is not completely bad. Like we're, we're seeing with the the outcome of the whole situation, they're still

Kyle Pierce: 00:17:50

That's actually why I think it's really good that you're here, even though I think I've been making my way that direction because I you know, focus on Natal, pretty predominantly, and sort of came into, you know, horror, airy and elections and event charts, I guess, if you will, are exceptional kind of charts. The idea that you know, you do any sort of action, anything that's

Joe G.: 00:18:34

i I don't want to interject. I feel like you're going on with that. But I actually do the opposite of it. I started applying the rules that I do to my Inception charts and my heart rate charts and election charts to Natal charts. Especially for timing and like really like going down on a particular event. And that's probably something that we can do once we take a look at the charts

Kyle Pierce: 00:19:46

not always so literally.

Joe G.: 00:19:51

I keep finding it that it is more often than not very literal. But the thing with the thing was that is that there are more than one literal, there's more than one literal manifestation thing that you're seeing, like fire can come in many different ways. Like this was a forest, forest fire, but candle fire would be just as fitting just as literal. But it's a different thing. Yeah. So yeah,

Kyle Pierce: 00:20:23

Yeah, I know.

Joe G.: 00:20:25

Yeah. Well, this is why I didn't want to interrupt you because I thought, a specific place and I kind of just went, Oh, yeah, no,

Kyle Pierce: 00:20:33

no, no, it's the spirit of the time right now, I actually should have looked at the chart for when we started started the episode I bet you Mercury's

Joe G.: 00:20:42

Mercury Retrograde, square Saturn.

Kyle Pierce: 00:20:49

Whatever you say is when I started studying like event charts and horary and elections and everything, my natal work got a lot better. Because when you start applying the chart to fairly specific circumstances and situations, you are able to sort of take the kind of abstract natal chart and start placing it in different situations, people's lives, because it's like you're you're sort

Joe G.: 00:22:01

Yeah, I think we can definitely say that, especially because if we're looking at the sun, and we're paying attention to counteraction. The sun ruling the 11th house, which is where Mars, who symbolizes the wedding, in this case, is at even though Mars is not necessarily dignified in there doesn't have duplicity or anything like that it's actually moving towards the sun, which is a

Kyle Pierce: 00:23:40

yeah, I guess that's maybe my was my, my main thought was like, I wouldn't necessarily want to get married under this particular trait. The moon is, again, its next aspect is that conjunction with Mars, I think, actually, well, Mars and Jupiter are an exact sextile. So the moon is going to basically get to a sextile and conjunction with Mars at the same time, which is sort of

Joe G.: 00:24:23

turning politically

Kyle Pierce: 00:24:26

it's Yeah, you don't always want to start depends on what you're trying to start obviously but a union like a marriage I wouldn't necessarily want to begin on on Eclipse it's a little ominous, especially

Joe G.: 00:24:38

with because they did ask a thing at the end like how to make sure this doesn't happen again. And for me, no Mars at the descent. Oh, yeah, no Mars ruling the B Senate. A wedding chart, that's for sure. If you want I would go for like Venus for sure me be Jupiter. or moon, even if the moon is feeling nice. But Mars, I don't think it's the most wedding like planets.

Kyle Pierce: 00:25:11

Yeah. What is it, you know, put Mars in the ascendant or related to the ascendance. It can be good for electing for a fight or a dispute. Somebody? Yeah. Depending on on the dispute I mean, I'm the descendant it's more like you're getting your your budget or something,

Joe G.: 00:25:31

but Oh, yes. Okay. I thought you said Mars on the descendant for that. And I'm like, that sounds like

Kyle Pierce: 00:25:39

for you, for sure. But yeah,

Joe G.: 00:25:41

but Mars on the ascendant? Wait. So I think, Wait, this is not really the topic grabs this?

Kyle Pierce: 00:25:48

I know. I know. I know, I thought.

Joe G.: 00:25:50

I think that just because I think it doesn't matter on a wedding thing to just because one of the primary considerations that you want to take is yes, you don't want Mars ruling the descendant? Like, it's not the most ideal planet to rule it. But if you don't have any other option, sure, it should be fine. But at the very least, while you're also looking for, as far as the ruler

Kyle Pierce: 00:26:34

you have Venus in cancer in the 10th. House, and Mars in the 11th. And Leo, and they are not. I mean, in a sense, you know, the moon is, is ruling Venus, and it's about to make an aspect with it's like in conjunction with Mars, but it's not quite what we've been in for.

Joe G.: 00:26:53

Yeah, I believe, I believe the Venus was actually the last aspect of the Moon had and then Mars is the next right, which is really good for a wedding chart. But I think that the fact that they're indifferent signs, and there's that sign boundary, almost symbolizes that there is a wall that we need to cross here and before the wedding actually happens, like there's this barrier. And

Kyle Pierce: 00:27:19

happens to be a giant fire is actually eclipsing a very 11th House event, while it's maybe a seventh house event for for the two people involved. It's a generally a wedding is quite an 11th house. event, because it's a large gathering of people. You know, it's it's usually a festive positive time,

Joe G.: 00:27:39

big party wine and music university. But one thing that we didn't talk about the allotment test, is the fact that they were talking about how friends specifically started

Kyle Pierce: 00:27:52

IE, that was my thank you. Oh, no

Joe G.: 00:27:55

worries. Yeah. started to get really feisty about not going to the wedding. If so, and so was there. Which is super interesting, because this is all happening in the context context of the 11th House of friends.

Kyle Pierce: 00:28:09

Yeah, I'm like literally imagining. While it may not have been exactly like this, it's probably more of the build up where you had a lot of friends arguing, I was just imagining almost seems like a movie to meet where, you know, you are about to have the wedding. And there's just like a bunch of people around maybe well usually have like friends helping you the early part of the

Joe G.: 00:28:38

I don't think I've ever been to like a proper wedding. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce: 00:28:43

Actually, it was pretty big one, but a lot of like festivities building up to it depends on your wedding, obviously. But it's just like, it looks kind of like an 11 house situation where there's a lot of bickering and fighting going on Mars. And then like, the whole thing just sort of gets swept away. And then the Eclipse or in a forest fire.

Joe G.: 00:29:03

And it disappears. Yeah. Which is really funny. Because Mars is under the beams and Mars symbolizing the actual wedding. It's like, the wedding was here. Now it's

Kyle Pierce: 00:29:13

but you do have what's interesting is like you have Jupiter in, in the first house. Right? It's not like on the ascendant, but it's, you know, will rise eventually. And it's, that's generally like a positive sort of indicator. So maybe it's like maybe Oh, for sure, like being for the best overall. Or just, you know, Mars, Jupiter and Libra is like, maybe good at keeping people

Joe G.: 00:29:39

And Jupiter also has Deccan being into you over there. Oh, yeah. And I think that Austin Copic talks about how that is the Deccan of balancing balance of like, balance and really trying to make sure that things are running well and they're sustainable sort of thing. But if we just go to the Tarot, even it's the forest swords. So it's the guy that's like, dead. Not dead. But he then has

Kyle Pierce: 00:30:56

thing. Yeah. It's like, it's, like fortifying the chart. In a sense, it's, you want to make your benefits as angular as possible, typically, and in any election. And your your ballistics, Saturn and Mars cadent. Ideally, though, I was thinking we probably talked about that maybe at the end. So I want to go through the rest of these charts. But you know, the idea that you have to put

Joe G.: 00:31:21

Yeah, I think that we might be a good time to talk about it. Now, since we're talking about Mars in the 11th house. Because I was talking to Patrick Watson about this in one of my hiring lessons. And one of the things that I was taught initially, is that it's generally but better to put the BNF or the malefics, in one of the like, the good places, because that can help mitigate some

Kyle Pierce: 00:32:38

Well, yeah, it's like you put Mars in the sixth house? And what do you have to do in the 60s, you have to like, do a bunch of bullshit, basically, a lot of work and a lot of a lot of efforting and possibly fights with people or, you know, arguments. So putting Mars there, it's like putting Mars where Mars belongs, it can do the things in the environment that is compatible with its

Joe G.: 00:33:07

Yeah, we all do.

Kyle Pierce: 00:33:08

Yeah, at some point, you're probably gonna have an argument with somebody. Yeah. Unless, you know, there are conditions that maybe would mitigate or really reduce the, you know, the amount of of that, like maybe an applying aspect from Jupiter. Yeah. Especially when it's in like the superior position will tend to be smoothed over, almost like to think of it as because you're

Joe G.: 00:34:02

It's almost like a like, like a line to the movies. Whoever comes first gets gets the best seat.

Kyle Pierce: 00:34:10

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's one of the things you can do if you're maybe choosing a chart for a wedding. Yeah, if you can get that with your your difficult planets, you can get Venus or Jupiter having a positive influence on them that can be helpful.

Joe G.: 00:34:24

So for that reason, I'm just saying all of this to be like, probably don't put Mars or Saturn in the 11th in the fifth house next time. Yeah, so we know that 11th fifth and seventh are the places that we for sure. Don't want Mala fix that for the wedding. Probably not for a wedding for sure. Yeah, yeah, not for the wedding for sure if it were something else, especially because like the

Kyle Pierce: 00:34:56

means and you're in your fifth house

Joe G.: 00:34:59

five Mars in a nature kinky, but I don't know, I think I would rather not risk it

Kyle Pierce: 00:35:09

if you want to choose. And I think that's the whole idea with electing, you know, events like this with astrology is you just want to give yourself the best leg up possible, you know? Yeah.

Joe G.: 00:35:22

Well, it will never be perfect. That's also

Kyle Pierce: 00:35:24

Yeah, no. And neither will your life. Sorry, guys. Right? That's what

Joe G.: 00:35:29

it is should we move to the next chart and the sequence of events, which would be engagement chart?

Kyle Pierce: 00:35:37

Yeah, let's turn it back in time a little bit. And I'm sort of curious how you perceive this is because this is like the wedding itself, right? Would you consider the engagement is kind of the inception for the wedding in some some way, or just would you kind of like tie them themes

Joe G.: 00:35:53

together, I mean, everything is tied together. Like, it's wheels within wheels within wheels. And that's the way that I like to think about these charts, especially when looking back at them like chronologically, but in reverse order, is that that chart that comes before it is always rooting the next one. So it's this action suggest, should suggest that the next action will have this

Kyle Pierce: 00:36:51

Yeah, that's a go off on too much of a tangent. But one of the things I've ended up doing a lot of consultations lately, especially with like people that have come back is is looking at like family charts, and how they sort of connect to each other themes sort of come up within families. And it's kind of a while like that, because I tend to look at casting a chart for a moment. It's

Joe G.: 00:37:40

And I think it's also the idea that, that drive some of some of the practices that people used to do of comparing the field Monday with a birth chart, because that's the the old math inception. Oh, yeah. And comparing that, you know, so that's always interesting. But the engagement track. Yes, the first thing that I looked at with this chart is the funny thing is in the canceled

Kyle Pierce: 00:38:33

Yeah, no, it's I know, it's, it's hard for me to. It's funny. Well, this one will start. This is almost exactly the same rising as the other one. So ash didn't give us an exact time for this one. It was like five to seven, I believe. Yes. When I cast it for 5pm. You get a Libra rising at nine degrees. Which is to the degree the same rising as the well no, it was eight degrees. Excuse

Joe G.: 00:39:18

is the sun at seven degrees or 17 degrees

Kyle Pierce: 00:39:20

17 Did I say? And then eat the Moon in Gemini at four degrees Jupiter in Virgo at 13 degrees in the 12 and Mars Retrograde six degrees of Sagittarius with Saturn at 14 degrees also retrograde at 14 degrees of Sagittarius. Right. So definitely referring to each other. I would say these these two

Joe G.: 00:39:45

charts Yeah. And the moon Mars situation is very striking because that's not only an opposition, but it's also a mutual application, meaning that Mars is retrograding into the moon and the moon is going indirect towards Mars. Yeah. And one thing in horror, we usually say, especially, because the thing that's interesting about this is that we have Mars representing the wedding. And

Kyle Pierce: 00:40:37

Yeah, I mean, you're always gonna want to take care of your moon in any chart

Joe G.: 00:40:41

for sure. Yeah, just universally, it's the body of the event. Yeah, 100%. But in this chart, so we do have was that connection, the moon applying to Mars. So it does suggest just by looking at it, that the thing does happen. But one thing that harder we also will tell you is that whenever you have this sort of thing happening, where is that a significant or that you're looking for, and

Kyle Pierce: 00:42:07

Yeah. Well, just to restate, what I said is that this is the chart for an engagement. So it's like the engagement is happening. And, you know, the think regret is actually a good way of putting it, or it is the theme that kind of comes up with the opposition. But it's not necessarily like, oh, I regret getting engaged with you, it's like, there's gonna be maybe a bunch of bullshit to

Joe G.: 00:42:51

100%. And I think that we also shouldn't understate the role of Saturn in that, because they do talk about how their families also seem to keep forgetting orange seem to like not be like super, I guess, not falling through all the way with the things that they've said. And that, to me, seems like a Saturn in Sagittarius sort of trait to promise a lot and have like the big sort of

Kyle Pierce: 00:43:31

Even retrograde, too, I mean, that's especially a horror, airy, retrograde Saturn, it's kind of like, promising, but maybe not delivering. And then the moon, I mean, it's not the next aspect, but like, it'll make an opposition with Saturn, like, having to remind like, you maybe can get the parents to help you out. But you got to remind them and they will make you feel like shit

Joe G.: 00:43:57

yeah. One thing that I thought was intriguing, though, was the situation with the relevant test here. Because then, and this chart, we don't see friends being that big of a deal. And I wonder, this is my theoretical astrology that's coming in. And I wonder if that's because from the engagement to the actual wedding, the friends weren't that big of an issue. But when the closer you

Kyle Pierce: 00:45:07

Yeah, I mean, you mean you get the ruler of the 11th in the eighth? With Venus ruling the first house, but it's also not really seeing Mars it's not seeing or seeing the wedding. No, that's right. Not seeing the wedding. Yeah. And it's actually, Venus is actually about to emerge from the beams or is it? Oh, no, it's going under, it's going under the beams. Venus is actually about

Joe G.: 00:45:52

literally what the Sun is.

Kyle Pierce: 00:45:54

Yeah. And even then, like the eighth house, which you can get sort of disputes in the eighth house or sort of controversy sort of bickering and like that, and then there's like an energy the eighth house being complainy sometimes depends on like, what it's doing. Or also just like other people's problems dealing with other people's bullshit, and Venus having to go underneath the ruler

Joe G.: 00:46:37

I guess, I guess we could say this is a very Taurus sort of thing, to not to be complainy. But just to be, I guess, particular about what you actually want in the wedding. Yeah, like to have the friends be like the sun in the forest could be like, you know, I don't really like that friend. That's gonna ruin my vibe.

Kyle Pierce: 00:47:02

Yeah, totally. That's me. That

Joe G.: 00:47:03

sounds very Taurus.

Kyle Pierce: 00:47:06

Sun in Taurus native and the sun in Taurus, especially I feel like is because it doesn't always like being in Venus signs in particular, can be a little like, I don't know uncomfortable and kind of touchy and specific, like it really wants to do specific things, once things a certain way with things, particularly in like the eighth house and sort of like expecting other people to

Joe G.: 00:47:36

Because also, what derived house is that oh, that's the 10th house from the friends. So you treat like the Leo as the rising because Leo represents friends in this chart, I always do that, then this would mean that the friends are in their 10th house. So it's like their own sort of interests and their own sort of investments and sort of trying to take

Kyle Pierce: 00:48:01

over the wedding. Yeah.

Joe G.: 00:48:03

The wedding is not about you. It's about them.

Kyle Pierce: 00:48:07

Which is I mean, it's a common story. Friends, sort of commandeering your wedding for you. Yeah. Which sort of maybe leads into the idea that maybe, you know, it's a good thing that maybe if and when you guys do get married, you can do it maybe on your own terms be a private ceremony, just my thoughts.

Joe G.: 00:48:32

I was but not too much. I just thought it was interesting. Because then if we also look at the 11th house as the ascendant, the 11th house is not the only house where we find friends, we also find friends in the third house, but different types of friends more like fraternal types of friends and things like and like really close friends. And if we do that, the 11th pass, then the ascendant

Kyle Pierce: 00:49:30

Though, Venus is said to be in her chariot, right? And that is true. So there is a sense of I always literally think of like having a chariot or like a canopy, sort of just kind of covering your head while you're underneath the sun. You're still underneath the sun, you still have your canopy. So it's like maybe you guys handling it well or like sort of not. I think that's what

Joe G.: 00:49:51

we're seeing. Because at the end of the day, they're still together. It's not like the wedding. Really. It doesn't sound like the wedding ended any friendship Sorry, anything like that, or that their relationship with their parents became awful after that, because I think if that were the case, they probably wouldn't mention these sorts of things. It really does feel like this whole

Kyle Pierce: 00:51:06

Yeah, totally. One, and I think to like, the context of, like, we were saying before, it's like the, the chart itself is, is maybe a snapshot, or it's tied into a bunch of other charts, you know. So like, while, at this moment in time, you weren't the only person doing a thing at that time. And maybe even starting a thing. And like, sort of, depending on the other circumstances of

Joe G.: 00:52:14

no for sure.

Kyle Pierce: 00:52:14

How likely are you to be, you know, to experience the worst case scenario? Yeah, there's much does that tie into your life? No,

Joe G.: 00:52:22

I think we give a lot more weight to two bad things, and how easy, really bad things can happen, then we do two good things, because we think that really good things are super rare. And they only come around every once in a lifetime. And the same can be said about bad things. But it seems like for the most part, we seem to treat them like they're the the exception to the rule, like bad

Kyle Pierce: 00:52:56

I know for me, like some of like the marzi sort of events that are experienced in transit, I was expecting it to be way worse. Or like after happened, like, Oh, that was the Mars thing. Oh, like that. That's just sort of, like, that's almost just normal Mars stuff? I don't know. It's not the normal, like unpleasant things that we have to do every day or? I don't know. It's sort of

Joe G.: 00:53:55

I did see that too.

Kyle Pierce: 00:53:59

I wouldn't necessarily pick it on a Dave Saturn or Dave Mars.

Joe G.: 00:54:03

Not bad for sure.

Kyle Pierce: 00:54:06

Not not not a wedding or engagement. Yeah. All right, we got a chart here. I'll just go over it real quick, just to give a little frame, maybe what we're dealing with. And maybe how you get a sense of how this might be tying into estrus chart and later Leazes chart, you get a cancer rising to send it at 10 degrees of cancer and the south node, right on 1111 degrees of cancer. And Ash

Joe G.: 00:56:08

This this part is the one where you have to run the show because I didn't even actually take a look at their birth charts. For this, I was just so fascinated with the events chart the event charts and how they connected to each other so clearly that I yeah even look at it. But digital, digital kept their perfection years and everything.

Kyle Pierce: 00:56:31

No, I didn't even do that. Honestly, I was just looking at the charts, we're only gonna have so much time so but there's already so much that will pop out it one it's the engagement was ashes to the degree Jupiter return. The natal Jupiter is at 1314 minutes Virgo in the engagement chart. Jupiter is at 13 degrees, 15 minutes of Virgo. It's retrograde. So I guess it would have passed

Joe G.: 00:57:17

I mean, the planet sorry. Yeah, but the descendant is on Jupiter's terms. And it's actually aspecting Jupiter to

Kyle Pierce: 00:57:26

you read my try. Yeah, exactly. So there's an influence? And actually, like trying to like dissect the terms a little bit because I I go back and forth on them honestly. Like, what do they do? Exactly. And one of the ideas that I tend to like us, it's sort of like, setting the parameters for a situation or an event. Think of just like, almost like a setup, setting like the

Joe G.: 00:57:55

I think the the metaphor that Gary Keaton uses for the terms. I actually like a lot. He says it's like a teacher in its own class, like your you don't run anything in that place. But like very briefly for like, short amount of times you have a little bit of a say, yeah, what goes on there?

Kyle Pierce: 00:58:15

When and I think Jupiter is actually in its own term in Virgo. I think no, Venus not and it's not it's an Venus's term. Yeah. Anyway. So you know, maybe introducing something on the topic of partnership, which, you know, the seventh house well, it's the place of marriage, it's not always about marriage, specifically, seventh house people are just people that you are committed to often

Kyle Pierce: 01:00:11

things that didn't improve over time. I would say that, I mean, there's nothing to me that indicates like no to marriage ever, or No to long term partnership ever, especially post Saturn Return.

Joe G.: 01:00:23

Oh, not at all. If anything, this really looks like a long standing relationship, like a very strong like and lasting ruler, the

Kyle Pierce: 01:00:34

seventh and the eighth seems to often show up, it's just people were like, very committed, like long term approach towards relationships, like through thick and thin kind of stuff. So that's to his part sort of approach.

Joe G.: 01:00:46

But here's a thought, though, I was just looking into into Listen, this might be a longer attendance than we have time to see that we already reached. But one of the things that I'm really fascinated about is all Newton, and trying to figure out what happens when a planet is unable to see the house that it's supposed to take care of. And another planet actually can see it. And in this

Kyle Pierce: 01:02:15

Yeah. You'll still get like the topic maybe like you still get like information from the planet about the topic if you can't see the house, but that's like AI is like it has to rely on something else to like maybe introduce, introduce the event, if you will, right. But yeah, I don't want to wrap it up here. But there's a couple interesting things. I like it's it's interesting that

Joe G.: 01:03:25

Sorry to interrupt, but I really do have to share this. But the reason why I was losing my mind just a second ago is that this whole time, I've been looking at this chart, and I'm like, this chart looks so familiar. Like, I feel like I literally just read this chart, and I realized I literally did just read this chart. I just have I just had to read it. Oh, wait. No. Yeah. Oh, like

Kyle Pierce: 01:03:59

that. I mean, I guess they could have probably found you through through Twitter. That's

Joe G.: 01:04:03

Twitter. Yeah, I did a I did a promo where I gave a free assessment readings, and they were the ones to get it.

Kyle Pierce: 01:04:12

That's wild. Well, I mean, you know, small world, astrology world. And the same people.

Joe G.: 01:04:22

Yeah, sorry, I just, I know that I probably threw you off. But I just thought that was so funny, like 10 degrees south note. Joining us then, um, like I literally just talked about the other day.

Kyle Pierce: 01:04:38

It's interesting that like, having the Mars and Sagittarius natively, and then the engagement chart also so it was like a Mars return. So there's some topic around Mars also being like a sort of ruler of Capricorn sort of exultation ruler, sort of pointing to something but But what I find really interesting is that Ash has the moon At nine degrees Libra in the fourth house ruling the

Kyle Pierce: 01:07:01

maybe Saturn in the sixth ruling the seventh, you know, there can be maybe dragging down or delaying you know, the event of marriage but you get a similar situation in both where you get a dignified Saturn, you know, Saturn is it's like a couple of little mitigations it's like, you know, some configuration to the the angle, the midheaven it's not fantastically tight, but it's, you know, I would

Joe G.: 01:08:30

And my Saturn is very not good.

Kyle Pierce: 01:08:35

Reception. It's not, it's

Joe G.: 01:08:38

not their worst. But yeah, I'm a little bit hesitant about statements like that, because I feel like it's not like you should, it's like if if you do it probably just will be not fantastic. Yeah. Probably just won't be like a fantastic ride there. And like, there is many ways for things to not be fantastic. It can be debilitating, but it can also just being kind of annoying. Yeah, you

Kyle Pierce: 01:09:50

That's, I mean, really what I tend to think of it as and it's showed up in my life I've sat on on my ascendant in Capricorn and it's it's like your relationship life your seventh house isn't fully cooked yet, maybe until post Saturn Return. That's not to say they can't be with the same person or it can't be, you know, you can't get married before that. It's just like, there's

Joe G.: 01:10:32

I do want to just say this one thing, and it will be super brief about Lisa's trip. So the one thing that I wanted to say about this, that I thought was very, very intriguing is that if by any chance, the time is not 1,000% accurate for this birth chart, there's a really good chance that her descendant of their descendants can also be in two terms. That would be really interesting.

Kyle Pierce: 01:11:01

mean that yeah, would only be like 30 seconds or so off, which could very easily be, huh, yeah.

Joe G.: 01:11:07

Which would make sense why Jupiter, the Jupiter return in the whole thing? Again, like, is the thing that seems to be timing the, the way, you know, just a fun sort of thought exercise to like, really? Yeah, the astrology I

Kyle Pierce: 01:11:27

feel like you probably have this too. Like, you spend so much time thinking about astrology, looking at astrology things. It's like you see a thing and you don't have like, I don't know, it's like, you kind of get it sort of like on an energetic level or something like a Jupiter level meeting. Like trying to translate it is like, a tricky. It's a it's a language.

Joe G.: 01:11:50

Yeah, that's like, it's it's a beautiful one that you can just like, look at a chart and have a whole story laid out. You know,

Kyle Pierce: 01:11:59

I know what we we got to wrap up here. And we wanted to maybe say a few things about you to answer the the end topic of the question of like, maybe how to avoid similar situation future or, you know, from an astrological perspective.

Joe G.: 01:12:15

I think we did talk about that when we were talking about the election. If you are planning on electing I definitely make sure like those things again, no more clicks on the fifth and seventh tiles. Oh, sorry, fifth, 11th and seventh paths. I think fifth and seventh, the most you don't want a malefic in there. But if it isn't ruled by malefic, I guess if the fifth is ruled by Mr. Figg is a

Kyle Pierce: 01:13:20

That was the thing Yeah. What else just always take care of your moon and your chart

Joe G.: 01:13:24

and just always take care of the moon. Don't get married. Don't plan for a wedding close to an eclipse. Yeah, don't don't do anything the lesson of this episode is Eclipse weddings. If they are not a good idea.

Kyle Pierce: 01:13:42

They don't happen. You're You're lucky.

Joe G.: 01:13:45

You're probably on the luck on that one.

Kyle Pierce: 01:13:48

But Nick on an angle like like Lisa does here.

Joe G.: 01:13:52

And actually for this video, I would actually prefer Jupiter or Venus Anna at the IC over the VMC not just because the IC represents the home run if you go by Doris as and looking at like the stakes, the IC would represent the ultimate outcome Yeah, of everything. So it's like really how things end and have a benefit there would ensure that the relationship has a good end. And I think that

Kyle Pierce: 01:14:39

yeah. The 10th house being like the reason for waiting like the reason for the event or like why thing is happening? Yeah. See, like putting Jupiter or benefic in the 10th Maybe the wedding? Probably not a bad thing. But you know, it's like yeah, oh, yeah, this feels good. It's fun. You know, we're we're happy right now, but yeah, You do want to get your your fourth house covered

Joe G.: 01:15:01

not as like long term sort of thing. Yeah. And I actually am a big fan of Saturn doing something to the seventh house for that same reason and I've like the long term, but I definitely go for like a Saturn sextile I wouldn't even favor that. Trine. I would actually prefer a sextile but probably with Saturn in the ninth not the fifth. Yeah, just because it can dry out sex life too much.

Kyle Pierce: 01:15:35

Yeah. Yeah, maybe above the horizon? A little more. Yeah, for sure. Where you want your your cool dryness. Not in the physical parts of the of the relationship. Yeah, I think there is something to getting a newer moon or like a, you know, gaining them light is pretty important. I would say for something like a wedding. For sure. You know, probably not the end of the world. Other

Joe G.: 01:16:29

saw I don't know too many of the. of the Arabic ones.

Kyle Pierce: 01:16:34

Yeah. Well, he really liked the moon and early Gemini for weddings really? Typically. Yeah. So almost at the right idea.

Joe G.: 01:16:43

Interesting. That is very interesting. I want to know why now, because no for any particular reason. But that just seems like one of those things that it makes no sense

Kyle Pierce: 01:16:59

to just sit with that stuff and just be like, huh,

Joe G.: 01:17:01

because like, what were you thinking when you said, I like to

Kyle Pierce: 01:17:05

think of like ancient writing almost is like, if you were to like read means or something for the time period? It they're not that exactly. But like, if you were to just think about it like that for a minute, it's almost like you're actually might have a better shot at understanding what they're talking about. Because it's like they're alluding to something maybe it's well

Joe G.: 01:17:37

Oh, I think I know why he's saying early Gemini. Lunar mentions. Oh, yeah. No, I think the first mention of Gemini is a particularly wedding favorable one. Yeah. I think that images of two lovers. Even. I can't remember. Exactly. I could be wrong. Yeah. And we don't have time for fact checking. Yeah. So

Kyle Pierce: 01:18:02

getting an order. And you know, maybe another really, maybe easier way to give yourself the best possible outcome when it comes to casting a chart for your wedding is, you know, maybe seeing Jojje for for a reading console on election accounts

Joe G.: 01:18:19

that I've heard is to get an election. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce: 01:18:26

I'm not offering them yet. But eventually, oh, you're offering elections? Not yet. I'm getting pretty close. Yeah, in the study groups where I've been getting some good, good practice with it. But obviously you need to I need to talk to you more.

Joe G.: 01:18:40

You bring Oh, I'm always down to talk to elections. For sure. I think the best way to become a good election astrologer and this is even an advice for this wedding, as well is to do a couple elections for very mundane things that you don't really care for, like doing an election for going for a walk and just looking at the chart and then seeing like oh shit like, yeah, Mars is doing some

Kyle Pierce: 01:19:40

Yeah, I something I like to do is I'm like at the grocery store or at 711 or something. I like to look at what the chart is for for them. And just to see what my experience of the line is. It's always when I'm in line that I look. And I've learned to avoid going when Saturn is rising because it just seems to result In long and long line are just like, coming up to me wants to buy

Joe G.: 01:20:07

But oh my god, let's start earn. It's so funny, even on the consultation charts, if Saturn is the descendant 90% of the time they're late. It's so funny. It's hilarious.

Kyle Pierce: 01:20:25

Guilty. Yeah, actually my ex wife said Mars on her descendant in Aries. And she was always early for everything unfashionably early

Joe G.: 01:20:37

Does that answer the other question? No. Yeah, I

Kyle Pierce: 01:20:39

think that's that's it? Yeah. Yeah. What do you what do you have going on these days? God,

Joe G.: 01:20:45

what do I have going on? I'm having many things going on. Actually, I don't know when this is gonna come out. But my website is getting a little bit of revamping now very soon. And I'm offering all sorts of new services, some of which you've heard here, first up on my lecture hall, practice, my practice, and my natal practice, which I'm trying to make things a little bit more fun

Kyle Pierce: 01:22:08

cast my lot in that competition but you can just yeah, no I Yeah. Highly recommended. Do you talent do you do talismans for people to

Joe G.: 01:22:20

I don't do talismans yet, but I guess this is a good time to announce my project that's coming probably sometime in the winter. But I'm right now working towards my certification as an astrology magician with Christopher Warnock and once I have that I want to start doing guided talisman practices. So you if you are interested in making talismans, I want I really liked the idea of

Joe G.: 01:24:45

pay you that much Wow. And I was like whoa, Jupiter is doing its thing. So yeah, talismans do work.

Kyle Pierce: 01:24:57

And it's a good advertisement to I'm gonna Get on this. I can use some of that. Um, well, yeah. I'm looking forward to that. I can't wait to see all this. And then, yes for me, I mean, you can, as always book a reading with me on my website, Kyle Pierce astrologer.com Jojo and I are also going to be involved in as poziom symposium. Yes. Was June 14 called RE becoming the one yes,

Joe G.: 01:25:59

it's unbelievable. There's so many great names there like Gemini Brett Ari Moshe Kaling Castile. Who else is there Cameron Allen appears Oh, it's gonna be a sick time guys. So please do come.

Kyle Pierce: 01:26:17

Yeah. I'm on with that. Call the day and thanks so much for joining me today. Jojje. And of course for to having you back. Hopefully, maybe for some I want to talk more about this magic stuff. 100% I do want to do this. I feel like it's something I literally need to be walked. Walk through Hilton Head my head my handheld through.

Joe G.: 01:26:42

It is definitely intimidating. When you get into them electric ones, you're like, Oh, I really didn't want to.