Episode 14
The Planets II - Astrology 101
We wrapped up our crash-course on the 7 traditional planets by going over the symbolism, meaning and significations of Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, joined once again by astrologer Jogee. Content warning: Things get a little raunchy when we discuss Venus and Jupiter.
Joe G. - https://www.themercuryrising.com/
Kyle Pierce: Consultations - Killer Cosmos - Instagram
https://kylepierceastrology.com
Tristan Paylor: Instagram - Consultations
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer your all your burning astrology and Birth Chart questions. We are back with part two of astrology 101 covering the
Tristan Paylor:Hello, hello. Yeah, very impulsively asked my partner to cut my hair. And then it turned out really great. And I immediately cast the chart for the moment that it happened and Kyle
Joe G.:I'm actually so glad that you're saying this because I feel like not alone anymore. Because i just got a new synthesizer and they, surprisingly, they sent to me the location of where it was
Tristan Paylor:I hear you.
Joe G. Oh, the chart was not good. I was kind of I'm kind of worried about my synthesizer. (Kyle:
:Oh, no) we'll see. We'll see. It was like a Moon in Taurus. Exactly. square Saturn on a night chart. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce:I mean, they're exalted planets, you know.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, they both got dignity as you can like,
Joe G.:I was thinking like, maybe the Moon in Taurus could be like a verse synthesizer, because it's like a designer synthesizer. You know,
Tristan Paylor:the moon and Taurus is the synthesizer. And so then Saturn has kind of, well, what's, what's the ascendant of the chart?
Joe G.:It was Moon at the midheaven. So that was Leo. Yeah.
Tristan Paylor:Leo. So then the sun is ruling it?
Joe G.:Yeah, sun was in the sixth.
Tristan Paylor:I don't know. But then like sun in the sixth could work because the sixth is like your employees and your synthesizers like your it's, it's something that you will search for work.
Joe G.:That's true. It's actually interesting that you say that because I also like play with Lenormand cards. And I was like, Oh, my God, as my synthesizer not gonna come. So I drew two cards,
Tristan Paylor:Your synthesizer is your beast of burden. That's a Saturn is squaring its moon, because it's a beast of burden.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, Saturn and Aquarius square. Moon and Taurus. That sounds like a burdensome artistic instrument.
Joe G.:Yeah, that's just me that like, it's a really delayed delivery, because it's being shipped all the way from Sweden. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:Oh, yeah. I don't know it. Could it, Do you have any enemies that the synthesizer could fall into the hands of?
Tristan Paylor:Because the 6th house is the house of enemies? Is that where you're getting that?
Kyle PierceYes. (Tristan::I Like that.) Though, I think for foreigners as well, technically in the six and 12.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it came from a foreign place. So
Joe G.:there you go. That is true.
Tristan Paylor:I feel like the story is really that it came from a very faraway country and there were delays is getting here because the moon is travel and Saturn has delays. But they're both
Joe G.:I am looking forward to it. Well, I can always return it.
Tristan Paylor:And then do the cast the chart for the moment that you return
Joe G.:and then another one for when I buy it again and another one comes out all right.
Kyle Pierce:Should we should have found a good segue into our first planet for today.
Tristan Paylor:Well, are we doing Venus? Yeah. Which is relevant to synthesizers right to music? Ooh, yeah, there you go. The planet of musicians
Kyle Pierce:always on on the ball with the Segway as it transitions, right. So yeah, our first planet for today will be Venus and go over like the basics Venus. Venus is a sort of a benefic
Joe G.:I was just gonna say moist and
Unknown:warm. Yes Yeah, go for tropical take it away Joe Gee.
Joe G.:I said what I had to say my master class my TED talk on Venus is just warm and moist. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor:that's that summarizes.
Kyle Pierce:Although technically, right? Isn't Venus supposed to be a little more cooling in nature, compared to Jupiter? Like Jupiter tends to they both tend to moderate moderate planets are
Tristan Paylor:making things smooth.
Unknown:I can think small Yes.
Tristan Paylor:I feel like Venus is when things are just the right temperature. You know, they're not too hot, not too cold. It's just like perfectly room temperature. Yeah, agreeable to life. I
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, one of the key words that really you can probably understand so much about Venus by just the one word like harmonizing one of the key significations of Unisys like chi harmonizes
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, it's, I mean, and fitting because Venus rules, musicians and art and you know, anything that we do for pleasure, aesthetic enjoyment, I often think of Venus as being you see Venus
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, Venus rules, pleasing things. Pleasure. And you know, we can go with the harmonization, like bringing things together, things that are attractive things that draw you to
Joe G.:right? I was just reading the pika tricks yesterday, just kind of like refreshing on it. And when it comes to Venus, they talk about how Venus specifically is the lady of musicians who use
Tristan Paylor:just like a relationship because Venus is all about that relationship, the voice of the instrument and the the human voice having a relationship with each other. We do something We
Kyle Pierce:know that and means was stringed instruments, too. You can harmonize. You know, you can play too. You can make chords, even a piano. That means, technically a stringed instrument. Yeah,
Joe G.:Oh, yeah, that is right. That is the simpler answer to the
Kyle Pierce:No, no, no. That's the thing, but it's well set aside about astrology in general, like, you can pull so much out of something really simple. And I think, you know, when you're studying
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. It's, it's amazing going through texts that just give lists of significations and you can get lost in the list of 10 significations for hours because each one becomes its own
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, but I'm going on with Venus and distinguishing Venus from like Jupiter can be tricky. Sometimes. I guess my like, main go to is that Venus is a little more material in nature to
Joe G.:I think Jupiter is also central in a way but I think that Jupiter may be like, like, you're saying, it's less about central physicality, but more so but like, the ethereal sort of like, whoa,
Kyle Pierce:Unifying things, like, you know, I think of, you know, Venus, like joining things together, in like, a pleasing way, while like, again, contrasting with say, like, Saturn will bind
Joe G.:but I think it's like a really important comparison because they do share a sign after all, because Venus is exalted in Pisces and Jupiter rules Pisces. But I think one one good way to like
Tristan Paylor:totally think is interesting that one of the things that has changed a little bit over the course of Western Astrology is that although like, in traditional texts, Mars is connected
Kyle Pierce:mean, I'd say Mars. Well, like in Vedic Astrology Mars is like very much like the role of Mars in sexuality is like, not really disputed. It's like not it's, it's, it's like the second
Tristan Paylor:similar thing. Yeah, Venus and Mars are kind of like two sides of that.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, well, if you think of like, you know, the actual just the sex act, right, the penetration in the, you know, the rough animal component of it, the raw desire, right? Is very Mars.
Tristan Paylor:what what it facilitates another important thing Yes. If you're just doing it for your own selfish interest that's one thing but yeah I was just
Unknown:like, that's a really good point because yeah, you need for it to be pleasurable
Joe G.:lubrication and
Tristan Paylor:just a lot of fun. And social social lubricant is in there too with like, you know, partying and drinking right and all that also being very Venusian. There's social pleasures and the
Joe G.:Yeah, and that's the thing too, that people often overlook is that traditionally, Venus was associate linked to poisons as like, like the planet Yeah, poisons, and it makes perfect sense. Like
Tristan Paylor:recreational drugs are all are all poisons, like they're not good for you even you know, the the more benign ones are harmful in some way or another and alcohol being the like,
Kyle Pierce:any substance in excess can potentially kill you, you know, Earth is like inhabitable because it's just the right amount of everything, oxygen and heat and water and all that to
Tristan Paylor:I think going back to the sort of contrasting Venus and Mars and sexuality thing, what sex actually facilitates, I think, is one of the things that makes Venus distinct because I
Tristan Paylor:things. And then we'll forget why we were mad. And then all of those that those individual relationships become like the social glue that holds family and society and everybody together,
Joe G.:what would happen if we had world origins instead of World Wars? That would be a great time.
Tristan Paylor:I mean, you know, you'd have a problem with humans are very dirty
Kyle Pierce:it's funny, because I was, you know, my foray into like Vedic Astrology is they kind of address that specifically with Venus and Venus does signify the ability to enjoy sex with multiple
Tristan Paylor:and there's a Uh, Venus is also like the moon, Planet of caregiving and nurturing it's associated in Hellenistic astrology with mothering as well. So it's, you know, not just
Tristan Paylor:something I just, I just do. It just makes me feel good. I just like it for its own sake.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, Venus is like the art of enjoying life and like enjoying people, even just taking pleasure in like simple things. It's not a skill that everybody has.
Joe G.:But I also think that that's why Venus and Saturn can be such good friends because Saturn is a great teacher, but it can be a little too harsh. A little Venus you can loop your way into
Tristan Paylor:Saturn Saturn is cold and dry and harsh and abrasive and Venus softens that a little bit.
Kyle Pierce:You know, Venus can like love Saturn, too. You know, Venus can find beauty and Saturn, even like Saturn tends to signify rougher, less pleasant things and less pleasant appearances.
Joe G.:But also perfection. That's also one of the keywords for mastery. Yeah, I feel like Venus would appreciate Lika really nice,
Unknown:we think the narrowness of what Saturn will approve of.
Joe G.:Only the finest will get past the gas of Saturn.
Tristan Paylor:I like I like that because it's sort of like, you know, a lot a lot of folks might have trouble sort of seeing you know what the appeal is and Saturn but Venus is the kind of
Tristan Paylor:merchants and trade and commerce, which is like mercury and so like Venus shares a lot in common with all the other planets so it's sort of like that ability to find things in common with other
Joe G.:love them.
Kyle Pierce:It's a good point about Venus I think a lot of that has to do with like Venus with the like priesthood to some degree but like the the market and trade element of Venus I think has a lot
Joe G.:I love that you mentioned opulence because that reminded me of Natalie wins video called opulence. She's a YouTuber. I don't know if you guys know her, but she is just like a philosopher
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, and going back to like the, the adorning quality of Venus like that is, that's all stuff that like it's fluffy and flair, you know, it's not necessary stuff, but it is the stuff
Tristan Paylor:The necessity piece is interesting, because you know, you think of Saturn as necessity and you think of, you know, adornments and beautification as being unnecessary, but I
Tristan Paylor:are like your absolute basic needs for like food and water, and then their safety, and then social needs. And then like, you know, self actualization is at the top, and you can't get to the top
Joe G.:Even going back to the poison thing. Like if you talk about alcohol, like to make alcohol, you have to ferment it. And that's a process that involves time, which is Saturn. Yeah, then the
Tristan Paylor:And it's like gratification and delay. And those two things also really hate each other as Saturn being delayed Venus being gratification and delayed gratification actually results
Joe G.:Oh, yeah. Asia for 10 years.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. That is really Venus, like, in its purest form is is that like, it's the art of enjoying things, which is very much it's not just shoving, you know, lard down your throat, like
Joe G.:and in Capricorn, she's trying Taurus. Yeah. And then in Aquarius, she's trying Libra
Tristan Paylor:and then in in Taurus, Venus is one of the triplicity rulers for the earth signs. So there's some triplicity dignity in Capricorn, too. I love Venus in Capricorn. That's one of my
Joe G.:right. And this Venus in Capricorn retrograde has been just like that. I'm waiting for the station.
Unknown:That's what it's like. It's just pure pleasure. Just dropped out.
Tristan Paylor:I've been having a good time.
Joe G.:Yeah, it's been interesting.
Tristan Paylor:My Mars in Capricorn needs it Venus is soothing. I think we might have gone over that a bit. But that's an important and important aspect of Venus is that Venus can soothe and calm,
Kyle Pierce:Right? Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember which ancient author it was said this, but it was that Venus is the only planet that can mend what Mars severs their, you know, kind of a
Joe G.:Mars.
Tristan Paylor:Mars. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:My sometimes favorite, sometimes least favorite.
Joe G.:I honestly take Mars for granted so much. I'm like, slowly but surely learning how to like appreciate it have Mars in the 12th house out of bounds. Like, not, not very present. But ya know,
Kyle Pierce:Mars is very much a planet that needs a planet like Venus, or something to temperate. Because Mars has a lot of great qualities when it's tempered. When it's managed and harnessed
Tristan Paylor:Mars is like, low key my favorite planet right now. I think
Kyle Pierce:I have such a love hate relationship with Mars. Sometimes I really do love Mars, because Mars does help me get shit done. But sometimes I find Mars to be a giant pain in the ass.
Tristan Paylor:Separating and heating. Yes. And be
Joe G.:irritating.
Unknown:things off? Yeah.
Joe G.:We pissed it goes both ways.
Tristan Paylor:There's a certain thrill that comes from being really worked up and angry.
Kyle Pierce:I feel like Mars can be almost like the most visibly can be so identifiable when you're you're doing or experiencing Mars. It's just when you get pissed off or irritated. That's Mars.
Joe G.:Wonder why the sun is exalted in one of Mars science.
Kyle Pierce:I mean, I tend to think that the sun is like a bit of a harsher planet than then say the moon. Right. But I think the sun kind of similar to Mars as it needs sort of an obstacle to
Joe G.:And when it doesn't have one, I will sure look for it.
Unknown:Yeah, look for an excuse to behave. And
Tristan Paylor:I think I've been very, very slowly working my way through a series of pieces on the traditional planets, just going through texts from various time periods, and then writing a bit
Joe G.:But it's so true.
Tristan Paylor:It's like the whole it's the rogues gallery of all the darkest stuff that people can do to each other people can experience. You know, it's, it's, well, I was thinking about what you
Tristan Paylor:has the ability to heal and nurture life, but fire destroys. And so if you have power over fire, you're constantly reining yourself in, you're constantly like, the first sort of less actual, direct
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, actually, it's to use another show analogy. Now, I already mentioned I mentioned the Witcher before, but having finished season two comes to mind is that in The Witcher, they have
Kyle Pierce:signifies chaos. I would
Joe G.:agree with Nick time. Feel like if we were to compare it to like outer planets, Uranus is probably like a baby of mercury. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:I mean, you know, debatable. Maybe Uranus could be a bit more chaos, because it doesn't necessarily have a goal in mind, depending on how you're looking at Uranus, while Mars. Mars does
Joe G.:It's the competition aspect of it all. Like, I think like, the whole mission of Mars is like victory. And I think that's why like, Jupiter and Mars are like in the table of friendships and
Kyle Pierce:actually a, like, kind of referring sector a little bit. Because, you know, we put Mars in the nighttime sect, mainly because the nighttime cools Mars off makes it a little more
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, they're about having power having command authority over others. Yeah, well, and I think one of the key things that distinguishes the mullah fix is that they are separating the
Tristan Paylor:earth start over you need the energy of Mars or you'll just keep persisting and you know, perhaps an unjust system that you're convinced well there's some way that we can patch this up and really,
Joe G.:Yeah, right. And I think this was something that we said the first time they were trained to record this but I think like with Mars is also a symbol of pain. It's also a bad thing that let
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I remember you talking about that because that had just come up in my my textbook to was talking about how important pain is and there was like a case study of a woman who's
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I would say that Mars, Mars will definitely tell you a lot about your your relationship to pain. It signifies pain, it signifies your ability to inflict pain, it signifies
Joe G.:Right? I think on a positive note, too. I think one of the things that Mars is really good at his just loyalty as a, like loyalty for a cause like Mars. When once Mars believes in a thing and
Kyle Pierce:it's that and I mean, speaking of pain, it's what you will endure pain for,
Joe G.:you know, right. I
Kyle Pierce:mean, you always you gotta think the soldier and there's so many different types of soldiers. There's bad ones, there's good ones, it kind of depends on like, how you're purchasing the
Joe G.:And even just like hunting, the benefits are all about having the luxurious feasts, but Mars is the guy who hunts it all down and picks it all up because cooks are Mars
Tristan Paylor:is Mars territory. Very first place it's a very pointy hot
Joe G.:I've worked on many man, Jesus Christ.
Kyle Pierce:It's definitely a place where like the planets like blend together though.
Joe G.:Yeah, it is really interesting. Definitely. I think Mars though rains in the kitchen. You're playing with fire knives. You're cutting things up. You're burning them up. Mars Mars is a
Kyle Pierce:my first jobs was as a busser. And I remember the kitchen, people were just do I got me all the time. They were always telling me, you know, to do this or do that, and they were they would
Tristan Paylor:A warzone. Absolutely. And I worked in food service for most of my working life. And that's where all the Mars in my chart really shows up is. It's a harsh, harsh environment. We all
Unknown:I get that with Mars all the time.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. It's like things happening quickly, right? So it's like when there's no time, you don't really have time to. It takes extra time and energy to say things tactfully. If you're
Joe G.:Right. One of the things that doesn't get talked about much about Mars is cleanliness to cleanliness is also a very commercial thing. You're killing bacteria. You're sanitizing everything,
Tristan Paylor:You got it? I was thinking about?
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, mercury, I think is supposed to be the planet will be actually obsessed with cleanliness. And actually, no, I know a Gemini rising with Mercury in Gemini. And there's definitely
Joe G.:Well, but there's a different thing between cleanliness and organization. I don't think a Mars is necessarily oriented. But like if you're going to clean a bathroom, I think that's a
Tristan Paylor:The toilet doing the nasty work.
Kyle Pierce:Mars wants things to be efficient. Yeah. streamlined, right, practical and be able to move forward. So yeah, actually, I mean, yeah, I would think like military dress even, you know,
Joe G.:which is also interesting, though, because one of the things that I to this day don't understand. And I see it all the time and then sharing ancient texts, especially with Aries is the
Tristan Paylor:it was the military Association like being in uniform. Yeah. Because there's like it there's a lot I mean, the more I learn astrology, the more Venus and Mars really blend together for
Tristan Paylor:in the muck when you're cleaning. So it's like there's a A weird relationship there where it's like the things you use to clean are all like sharp or harsh or abrasive or burning. Yeah. And when
Kyle Pierce:I think Mercury likes to stay clean too much to actually do the deep cleaning. You need Mars for like, yeah, the real cleaning, right?
Joe G.:I think Mercury cleanliness would be like the appearance of cleanliness. Like you're, you make sure everything looks like it's in the right place. But there's definitely certain things is
Kyle Pierce:kind of speaking to Tristan, that was a really good point about, you know, finding that weird kind of that Mars, Venus, like other sides of the same coin, like you think about some of the
Kyle Pierce:cut hair. You know, Mars and Capricorn. Think we kind of eyebrows you want you want right? Cut off right here. You want them nice and neat. Sharp. There's a Mars definitely. I mean, it's really hard
Joe G.:Right, I think it's a I can't remember if it's actually the pika tricks. But there is, it could be a different, like astrological magic book. But one thing that they say is that Mars is
Tristan Paylor:and love that. Well, the important signification of Mars is the taboo. I think one of my favorite ways of referring to this comes from Abu Mushara, who writes that Mars's regarding
Unknown:all the time. Mars delivers back to me so often,
Tristan Paylor:but like the the taboo nature, especially in connection to sexuality, like Mars is one of the most as, as a queer person. Mars is one of the planets that is most important. To me.
Tristan Paylor:shouldn't exist, because they don't make sense. And I think you can find a bit of Mars in there as well.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. And it's like, if you didn't have Mars, you wouldn't be able to sever away from those really bullshit, social taboos. You know, we're unnecessarily limiting restricting. Yeah, you
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, sort of blaze the trail. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:And, you know, a lot of people will bury who they really are, underneath the expectations of a lot of people in their community to avoid that suffering and separation. But Mars
Joe G.:which is a genetic thing. Now that will drive to like a simile, and just like, let's all be together, and we'll all be fine. Like they're suffering that can come out. Oh, yeah, quick thing.
Tristan Paylor:I guess the banana fix will, you know, deny, you know, it's like, I will deny how I really feel or who I really am in order to assimilate and make sure I don't rock the boat and make
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, it makes you glad to have all them really all the benefits and the malefics. Because they really do you know, you don't want to go to Mars, because you'll never have any
Joe G.:That actually reminds me of like a thought that I just had recently because I'm like, studying cryptocurrency. And it's just like a thing that I'm like, fascinated with now. But like,
Tristan Paylor:and eat a healthy ecosystem has predators in it like the mullah fix represented that and I was reading a bit about wolves the other day, and how, like in places where wolves are
Tristan Paylor:wolves, they not only control the deer population, but they kind of like herd the deer population in such a way that it's not even just that fewer willows are being killed, but that there are whole
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. I love that. It's, I almost feel like we're seeing too many nice things about Mars.
Tristan Paylor:And they say good things about the effects. The first time we recorded this we were like trashed. I felt so bad. Yeah, solid today. and maybe you know, remind remind everyone wise the
Kyle Pierce:I know I should we should probably before we moved on with Jupiter say you know maybe some of the harsh realities of Mars as well.
Joe G.:I think we did cover a lot of the harsh realities of it we started pretty like heavy on Mars yeah pretty heavy with all the
Kyle Pierce:Mars you know, stab you Mars is murder Mars, you know, it's all those awful things.
Tristan Paylor:Mars is crime.
Kyle Pierce:It's actually probably some of the worst worst things in life our Mars right but you know I don't need to talk more about Jupiter to bring brings energy in because tying it all together
Tristan Paylor:Jupiter.
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Tristan Paylor:So we have another Ben Affleck and I did say greater Ben Affleck but I feel I should clarify that does not mean better or superior than ethic it it refers to you know the length of time
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. I really hate to keep doing this. I keep saying Infotech astrology and Vedic Astrology but it's it's interesting. I love getting different perspectives. Yeah. But consider
Tristan Paylor:I like that.
Kyle Pierce:I think that has to do with literally, it's the Venus is more feminine. And feminine is benefic
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, I've heard the masculine is malefic.
Unknown:Just just, you know, I get that makes sense.
Tristan Paylor:Josie your style. You're okay, you're
Joe G.:clean. Yeah, I want the world
Tristan Paylor:to hear your beautiful laughter
Unknown:It's actually very Jupiter. Yeah, kind of laughter
Tristan Paylor:speaking of the bun FX,
Joe G.:I guess it is hohoho
Tristan Paylor:is up put her as kind of the Santa Claus of the planets. I guess we haven't mentioned sect. Jupiter is of the daytime sect.
Kyle Pierce:Yes, of course rules. Pisces and Sagittarius traditionally.
Joe G.:Oh, and one thing that we did say on the last attempt that I do want to bring back.
Tristan Paylor:Semen off cookie butter is an underrated sex planet.
Unknown:It definitely is
Joe G.:100 signifying Oh, he's always fucking there is not one single story where Jupiter is not making a kid
Kyle Pierce:that in that is what Jupiter is very good for the especially the beginning of children. And I know we're not talking about beginning means but I always think of just like putting children
Joe G.:But that's the weird thing too, because I think like, Yes, he does bring the child to life and he kind of dips out but he's always like, because he is the king of Olympus. He's always
Tristan Paylor:I think I think we're a little unfair to Jupiter. Sometimes, though, when we we fall into the trap of mythic literalism and forget that, like you're gonna miss are not meant to be taken
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, Jupiter is prolific, and it multiplies things like a bit gross. Yeah. expands. Yeah, those are kind of like the key phrases, really for Jupiter growth and expansion.
Joe G.:I like that you mentioned multiply, because I think that like going back to Venus, that might be like a good way to think about it. Like Venus adds budget or multiple
Kyle Pierce:leave a little meme about it that I didn't post yet, because I keep posting on social media. But yes, yeah, it's awful. I think Jupiter multiplies. Venus adds. Saturn subtracts. Mars
Tristan Paylor:Mercury does the math. I love. That's great. Yeah.
Joe G.:Yeah. Amen. And honestly, like, I love these sort of, like really obscure correspondences, because they get you to think about the planetary archetype. And it's such a different, I guess,
Tristan Paylor:I love that. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce:fun. We're gonna have to do like a music themed episode. Actually. Yes. We're getting off track though. Jupiter,
Joe G.:right? Well, we'll talk Jupiter, Jupiter, the Lord of trines
Tristan Paylor:triangles.
Unknown:That is, yeah, triangles. That's is that the sine wave.
Joe G.:Sine Wave is the wave wave wave triangle and then that triangular one is done. Next closest, you add a little bit of tension there. Now every note will sound completely perfect. But
Kyle Pierce:We can get so deep into this, but I have to be
Joe G.:military all
Kyle Pierce:the while it's not perfect, but you think about in terms of like, intervals like squares like a minor third changed, like minor thirds, but trying is a major third, you know, that
Joe G.:you have to sit and talk for sure. I have a whole like modal model using deck ends back to Jupiter, Jupiter, Jupiter,
Unknown:Jupiter. Maybe it's just that Jupiter brings out the joy, you know that say?
Tristan Paylor:We're just so happy, whatever you're loving. We just want to talk to our passions. Yes. I think one of my favorite textual significations of Jupiter comes from the anthology of
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I mean, the Jupiter definitely is expansive in its thinking, compared to Venus, it's very, it is social in the sense of it's looking often how to, like make things better for
Joe G.:But usually, like people pleasing is the thing that people usually ascribe to Venus. But I think Venus is more so like a person pleasing. Yeah, Jupiter is people pleasing, like Jupiter is
Kyle Pierce:i This is something that comes from you that I always think about now is the and I'll never get your analogy. Exactly right. But it is idea that you know, Jupiter wants to and wants to
Kyle Pierce:prehistoric times, because there's so much oxygen in the atmosphere. And they can do that because the surface area of law, now they have to be really tiny because they can't absorb enough oxygen
Joe G.:Yeah, like, you've gone too far. But
Unknown:if you go too far, it'll, it'll all crumble.
Tristan Paylor:I think it's interesting, though, that like Jupiter is a benefit. And so is associated with moderation as opposed to extremes. And I think, in modern times, we tend to think of
Kyle Pierce:of surprising one with Jupiter. Yes, it's
Tristan Paylor:like Jupiter is associated with religion and priesthood and religious and spiritual values. And, of course, you know, in a Christian culture, what are those? Things like temperance,
Unknown:descriptions are pretty puritanical. It can,
Tristan Paylor:yeah, well, they can get a little, I think, you know, sort of the dark side of Jupiter with the religiosity as being like to certain of what it believes, and the you know, like,
Tristan Paylor:that like, you know, I want to have a sense of right from wrong and know that the decision that I'm making is right and good. But you know, and this, I think, is where you see the contrast between
Unknown:Yeah.
Joe G.:Right. I like how you brought the cultural context, like speaking about renaissance and how like, Christianity was such a big thing. And all these positive qualities ascribed to Jupiter are
Tristan Paylor:have moderated Jupiter's normally are like stabilizing, you know, Jupiter's is supposed to be like temperance being, like, take the Balanced View, you know, don't, don't go to two
Kyle Pierce:They're like excellent points. And I'm thinking about, you know, with Jupiter and that's kind of one of its core significations of wisdom. And wisdom is something that you gain over
Kyle Pierce:Jupiter, which, you know, has such a long cycle compared to like Venus, like 12 years. Ultimately, I think Jupiter gets to like a point of like, accepting the sort of contradictions inherent in people,
Joe G.:Because that really makes me think about Jupiter being exalted in cancer, and even like, the, like what you said, like just letting things slide. It's just that like, Oh, we're all family,
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, it's, you know, you picking your battles to, like, Jupiter gives you the wisdom, the wisdom do that Mars will want to fight every battle, you know, Saturn will want to nail it, nail
Joe G.:when I think I have Jupiter, it reminds me of those, I don't know if they still exist, but at some point, like all over the internet, you got like, I don't know, some country, they had, I
Joe G.:for survive like for you. You're out here like there is abundance there is such thing as an abundance and you just have to like you just have to know how to look for it in the right place. And
Kyle Pierce:give people Yeah, avenues to get back into society. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor:rehabilitation to punishment, Jupiter's not gonna punish you for your infractions. Jupiter's gonna sit down and go. Okay, how do we fix this? You know, like, Yeah, you did something
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. And you think about, its opposite, maybe some degree, Saturn is sort of people being outcast, and put on the bottom rungs of society. And our alienation just creates more, like
Joe G.:Choices. I like how you put choices like having all those choices, you have all these things that you can choose from.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, when you only have the choice between starving to death or stealing in the old lady next door, like you're probably gonna pick stealing from the old lady next door, right?
Tristan Paylor:That Jupiter is the door that, you know, opens you up to other possibilities, like, Hey, here's, here's a person, it's I think Jupiter, you know, in a birth chart can often show us
Joe G.:And that's interesting too, because like, those are also like, like, there's a very fine line of where Saturn also gets into that. It's because I think that like Saturn, if you're trying to
Tristan Paylor:I think there's certain qualities of both of the benefits that are not strictly rational as well. I think there's a bit of like, in order to survive, we can't be totally like, we
Tristan Paylor:pandemic. And like the kind of work that I felt that Jupiter was doing during that time was preventing us from falling as a as a collective into total despair, right? Like this. These are dark
Kyle Pierce:That's really amazing point actually. See think like Venus will do more maybe in like the tangible in the touchable feelable seeable things will make you know a situation or moment
Joe G.:But I do really like that you guys brought up hope because sometimes you also see hope as like a Saturnian keyword. Card even like the start card in the tarot it's Aquarius, which is the
Kyle Pierce:sometimes, like a really neat way. I know, it can be a great thing to have hope and even when, like when the outcome might just be bad, you know, there may not actually be any hope but
Tristan Paylor:think Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl that classic is very good meditation on this sort of discussion of Jupiter and Saturn and, you know, being able to find hope and meaning
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I have that audio book and I have I need to finish it. Yeah, it's really good.
Tristan Paylor:It's a tough read, but a very important one.
Joe G.:I think like, one of the good ways to think about your tuition that sense of like being at the right place at the right time. It's also very much joopa terian just like Oh, I did nothing to
Tristan Paylor:The experience of grace free a free gifts you didn't have to work for Saturn doesn't give you anything you don't work for Jupiter's just like you just happen to be here. And I just
Kyle Pierce:like to think of your seagulls Mr. Bean movies. You know, Mr. Bean is
Tristan Paylor:how I watched a lot of Mr. Bean drone. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:Oh, yeah. I like to think of Jupiter with Mr. Bean. And that, like, he's always, you know, walking into situations that like he should be getting horrifically injured. But something is
Tristan Paylor:That's a really good illustration. I think it's, it's, you know, one of those things that does occasionally make very joopa terian personalities grading where like, a friend of mine
Unknown:actually works out.
Tristan Paylor:And they Yeah, they're just oblivious to anything. It's just like this for everybody. Yeah, right. Yeah, I have a friend who made a really fun d&d character for a campaign we
Kyle Pierce:And that that is absolutely a thing that I maybe struggled with with astrology early on, that some people just seem just kind of lucky. That doesn't count really any merit
Joe G.:astrological privileges a thing astrological
Kyle Pierce:Jupiter, they would look to Jupiter. If I met somebody who had that going on, I would be looking at Jupiter in their chart.
Tristan Paylor:Well, yeah, it can be there are lots of symbols in astrology that do make a great meditation on on privilege like dignified planets. Planets. Yeah, fix up in your business. Those are
Kyle Pierce:potential scenario. Astrology hotline is at war, at war on answered astrology questions. We have the weapons, we have the training, but to achieve ultimate victory, we need your
Kyle Pierce:around around those areas of life you know we often look to probably a slightly more often my favorite one of my favorite planets. I love all the planets there so wonderful. Saturn
Joe G.:Saturn, yes king of gays.
Unknown:It it shows up
Tristan Paylor:testament to this true. Angular. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce:And it does sort of mean it makes sense when you think about Saturn is sort of the the archetypal challenge or the son in a sense. That sort of challenging the norm, you know, it's, it's
Joe G.:being your skein Yeah, because Saturn would be straight.
Kyle Pierce:exactly true. That is, that is exactly it. That's it.
Tristan Paylor:You the Sun is your heteronormative says norm. patriarchal hero, you know the sun the sun is the Lion King, you know as the same but Saturn is the queer coded villain Saternus scar
Kyle Pierce:I don't know, I guess there are, you know, so many ways, I guess that Saturn can play out. So lots of ways to be to not fit in, right. Many, many ways, more ways than there are to fit in
Joe G.:right. Like backtracking a bit to what we're talking about when we're talking about Jupiter. And like the societal context of it all and how that that's like such a big deal about how
Kyle Pierce:I think he just hit on something kind of brilliant, actually, when you think of like the the, the the periods of Saturn dignity, you know, or maybe not great times for mainstream
Joe G.:That can't be ignored anymore.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. Yeah, well, that hadn't occurred. me but yeah the own and it's not like, everything gets fixed. Right and during that five or six year period, but you know, it does seem
Joe G.:winter. It's really interesting how like, we're always gonna get like in the ancient books, it's always like, oh, like death by water or Saturn or like, that's Saturn and all these waters sort
Kyle Pierce:waters associated with both Saturn signs. And right want to make one point is good. Saturn is very hard. It's very hard. It's not brittle. So a very cold dry thing. Might be hard, but
Joe G.:like to think of Saturn as ice.
Unknown:So that yeah, like, yeah,
Joe G.:it feels dry. But is it
Kyle Pierce:you know, this be subject to debate, for sure. But I think there could, there could be water on Saturn. There can be a moist component to Saturn. But I think what is undisputable is the
Tristan Paylor:It's it's funny because we associate Saturn very often with heaviness and density, you know, feeling a feeling of weights, and yet the actual planet physically is very light. Like if
Unknown:Yeah, right. I don't know what that means.
Joe G.:either. I was like,
Tristan Paylor:one of those things that I'm still wrapping my head around, because generally Saturn, you know, represents things that are that take a long time, PACE is a good symbol, because
Tristan Paylor:know, it's like possible to see Uranus but extremely difficult as to be ideal conditions, Saturn is really the end of what we can see. So it is endings it is closure. And so it is a power that when a
Kyle Pierce:Right? Yeah. Because Saturn rules, limits and endings and death. It also has this kind of reverse opposite end of dealing with longevity, things that last very long time, things that have
Joe G.:but Saturn can also be the king, but I think in that metaphor, it was the other king. Yeah, the populace can there's another one and another country who knows what they do over there.
Tristan Paylor:Is there is like there's definitely a connection between Saturn and authority in the old text that comes up a lot, I see it a lot and like balance combinations of the planets,
Tristan Paylor:for all eternity, and everything is lovely. I mean, these are all like the best of the best people. You know, Kronos is the overseer of that. So there's like, there's a sort of, you know, interesting
Kyle Pierce:And when you think about the cycles of like civilization, right, big social cycles, you know, you get a established system of power, it works, it works, eventually, it doesn't work, you
Kyle Pierce:again.
Tristan Paylor:Also, I mean, that sounds very lunar to me as well, lunar leadership, where the moon is associated with the common people and a leader of the common people. Like I think of Frida Kahlo
Joe G.:I think like, a good way to like distinguish, distinguish, both of them wouldn't be like, maybe the moon is like the middle class. And then Saturn is like, poverty, and like rain or
Kyle Pierce:It's really the they end up being the people that are the most pissed off, though, at the end of the day, are going to maybe start the insurrection at some point.
Joe G.:But it's also like the people who have the capacity to see an opportunity and like, jump at it right, that second because they know that that won't come again. And I think that one of the
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, yeah. And also like Saturn being the lord of time, you know, being the the representative of of time in astrology and being the, you know, visible planet that's farthest from
Joe G.:Right. And another thing with mercury and Saturn two, and I think that, like now that we have Uranus, Uranus gets all the hype about technology. But I think technology is also very much
Tristan Paylor:That makes a ton of sense. And also, like, you know, thinking about how slow evolution is compared to how fast technology moves, and so we can't really like and today I was
Tristan Paylor:liked that you brought Saturn into that, that makes a ton of sense.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Right? Right. And I would think that mean, you really couldn't have even maybe the inspiration or the capacity to invent something
Kyle Pierce:you know, it doesn't need things to feel good because it already, it's not about feeling good. It's about feeling it's about seeing what is and seeing where things will go seeing the end of something
Joe G.:so interesting that Saturn can be both veteran edition itself, and the one person or the one group defying that tradition, to then create another tradition, and then continue the cycle over
Kyle Pierce:like science. I mean, it is a tradition in the sense but it's very much a system of skepticism being critical thinking deductive reasoning with Saturn, because this and this and this
Kyle Pierce:notice. It's like this world within itself.
Joe G.:Sorry. Sorry, Mike is just doing some weird thing right now.
Tristan Paylor:Speaking of Saturn, which rules cats
Kyle Pierce:totally makes sense because cats build let you pet them when they feel like it. I don't know there's something very like negating about cats. Sometimes
Tristan Paylor:I think it's the fact that there are obstacles and they're limited. It says those two things make them Saturnian. To me. They're also they're liminal in the sense that they're active
Kyle Pierce:Think about cats too. Like they were just they were kind of kept around originally. Like to catch rats and mice, vermin and stuff. They weren't necessarily like pets. They were just
Joe G.:Right. And even I guess, like we're talking about poverty in like the sense of like, looking for opportunities, like cats also domesticated themselves. Like they saw that people
Tristan Paylor:resourcefulness is, I think one of my favorite Saturn keywords and one of my favorite keywords for Saturn's domiciles. Saturn's signs of Capricorn and aquarius. It's like in the
Tristan Paylor:something out of nothing is a very sort of Saturn thing. Like I've got you know, the MacGyver It feels very Oh yeah, honey and figure error like whatever I you know, I've got an elastic band and
Joe G.:Right. And I think that's what like another reason why mercury and Saturn do so well together. Because, like, I think cuz, again, I don't know if this is the pika tricks, but it's one
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, I was just going to say something about the service component of Saturn. But like, you think like the water bearer is Aquarius is really a servant. Since you know, in like
Tristan Paylor:And, you know, like we've talked about a lot I think the malefics being about doing the things nobody wants to do. Oh, yeah, Saturn, Saturn shows up and, you know, takes out the trash
Kyle Pierce:Yeah. excetera gets like associate with like, ambition a lot. Or like, discipline and maybe we already mentioned it a little bit before it's the kind of difference between Mars and
Tristan Paylor:like a lot of negative space that like emphasizes negative space always me Yeah, give Saturn right.
Kyle Pierce:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, understated things, too. It's nice when like Venus or Venus Saturn combines with other things it gets like an you were really get the best qualities of Saturn is when
Tristan Paylor:It's you know, like you were talking about Kyle, the critical thinking faculty, which I think is another reason that Saturn and Mercury works so well together because Saturn is
Joe G.:I think like to with mercury mercury gets gets the fame for being the jack of all trades, but then with the jack of all trades, there's always like that Master of None sort of like a moniker
Kyle Pierce:I love that. That's perfect. Mercury will dabble and you without without Saturn to focus it can use a little just a little more more Saturn and Mercury
Joe G.:but very thankful for my Mercury Saturn Trine.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, you will be the master of all
Joe G.:hope not.
Kyle Pierce:Well, yeah, that's maybe one of the great lessons of Saturn is like, not not having the time to to be the master of all things. Like I was actually one of the most depressing it's actually
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, Saturn forces you to recognize your limits. And it's like the Saturn cycles are interesting because they mark like Saturn returns mark these really significant milestones and
Tristan Paylor:know. So like, You got to start making sure you're exercising and eating well and getting enough sleep because you're not indestructible anymore. And Saturn lets you know, like you are not in fact,
Joe G.:And I think that that's one of the reasons why Saturn is rejoices in the 12th house. Because I think, for you to really be the master of all things, you have to deny all these other
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, like people, you know, there's sort of great geniuses throughout history, who like master these incredibly difficult disciplines often don't have the best family lives, like
Tristan Paylor:skills, and I have a much easier time making friends. I don't spend so much time making art. It's like, at some point, you do have to shut things out to master something, it's a difficult choice
Kyle Pierce:It is the funny thing about Saturn because one of the big things to Saturn is it does tend to point to things that get better with age get improve over time. And kind of there's like
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, seven can be very humbling. sort of bring you down off of your high Of course,
Kyle Pierce:it humbles. All right. Right. But I mean, Saturn also points to the appreciation for humbler things not needing to have exes and extravagances and crazy indulgences to be happy. In a
Joe G.:I think, I think it's like a really nice distinction between like Mars and Saturn. Because I think Mars with that competitiveness in that like drive to achieve things can come like a sense of
Kyle Pierce:thing better. And I do believe specifically does signify poor hygiene.
Joe G.:Does it actually
Tristan Paylor:supposed to Yeah, mine signifies the soil. Yeah, it's all about balance says it's literally the soil and farmers and cleanliness the soil. And my favorite example of this that I love
Joe G.:There's like a ritual that like involves the head of a black cat. Yeah. And they're like, you keep the blood and you make sure you use that blood to make the incidence that's like whoa.
Kyle Pierce:Saturn doesn't give a fuck like, oh, yeah, oh, I'll play with some cat blood.
Joe G.:But like, we have to also think that at around that time, they were doing like divination through animal entrails. Like, animal sacrifice was very much normal.
Tristan Paylor:And made sense. Because you're, I think with like, it's a very different context where like, meat is harder to come by. And you would eat it communally. And it would be like an
Joe G.:what would be the modern equivalent, sacrificing your phone? To a firepit
Tristan Paylor:so sometimes, I Devine with my noodles, like sometimes you'll see, you know, Runic shapes and astrological glyphs and what have you and your ramen, oh,
Joe G.:man, like I have. It's really weird because I have so many, like, different like, oracle decks, and all these sorts of things. And like, eventually get to a point where everything can be a
Unknown:Yeah, so yeah,
Tristan Paylor:we actually do like so. And
Kyle Pierce:yeah, we do have to Yeah. The the lesson that Saturn teaches us is that all things come to an end and you know this. This episode is not exempt from that. So, yeah, any parting words for
Joe G.:I think we need to find titles for all the other ones because we have the Lord a seaman Lord lube and the Lord decays, but then the other one they're missing.
Tristan Paylor:I would like to invite people to write into the show with your titles for the planets
Kyle Pierce:sports would be like the Lord of nerdiness, right? That's catchy. But it is the Lord like your
Joe G.:nerdy about modern nerds that that would make sense.
Kyle Pierce:Dennis was what was it the boys boobs? Lower to blue. Demons Jupiter. What was Mars?
Joe G.:Mars? We didn't have one. I guess it's a the listeners have to chime in.
Kyle Pierce:Yes, please. You can you can send us an email at astrology hotline pod.com Or you can and we need like a thing where you can actually post because Instagram I feel like you can't like
Tristan Paylor:We need a we need one of those numbers that people can text Yeah.
Joe G.:Oh, like all in that'd be fun. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce:I really want yeah, they're just their services like that. It's like a discord channel. Yeah, potentially.
Tristan Paylor:We could do a discord channel. Which other modern love discord
Tristan Paylor:you've just signed yourself up for
Joe G.:doing that.
Tristan Paylor:Okay, perfect because I hate saying no to people.
Joe G.:I love it.
Tristan Paylor:You get some characters on Discord people just come in say whatever they want and troll and like a nice community. Yeah,
Joe G.:man. managerial roles. I love them. It's the best.
Unknown:That's that's sun sign on your head. It's true.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah. All right. We've been trying. We've been trying to wrap this
Joe G.:up for real not here. He left.
Tristan Paylor:I know where he's like. Saturn is stuff to do.
Kyle Pierce:Where are you Saturn? Are there any mutable planets even out right now?
Tristan Paylor:Mars? Or do you mean like visible in the sky?
Kyle Pierce:I guess even our chart real quick. I think wrapping things up. getting distracted.
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, what are you doing? We've got the moon Gemini. Yes. Beautiful. Yes.
Unknown:Got into Gemini.
Joe G.:Or no? Yeah, drive.
Unknown:Mars's cadent
Tristan Paylor:right now and that's why we can't
Unknown:be cancer is cancer rising looks like cancers rising this is
Tristan Paylor:where I am Virgo is just rising. Just changed it's zero degrees in 15 minutes.
Unknown:I don't have a good chart right now send it
Joe G.:with any Rupert or rather the descendants. I love the the astrology math. We say you're one thing it's like oh yeah. Mercury is here. Mars is there Saturn is and you're mapping the whole chart
Kyle Pierce:I use it it actually it happens really easily. I love it. It seems fun. Really weird. Like put together like it's it feels like you're a detective. I don't know. Like people will drop
Tristan Paylor:right? You were born in your eyes? Yeah, you got the sun in the fourth house so you were born I love I love doing
Joe G.:because it all starts with like oh you're probably like a Pisces or you're probably like a Scorpio and then it goes into like oh you're probably like a Mars ruled the Moon in the fifth house
Tristan Paylor:I know I go straight for the planets like I don't I don't think Oh, you must be this or that sign. I'm like oh, you've got some like hard aspects. Or something like that's the that's
Kyle Pierce:place to start. Thank you just you know what planet are the most like, what's the most prominent planet?
Tristan Paylor:Like Callum MacLeod My first thought was not what scientists this guy was what are the ML ethics doing? The dog or rode with a pickaxe in his 50s This is like Saturn persones
Kyle Pierce:ruled by Capricorn rising to me but
Joe G.:but the whole sign thing is like actually very recent. Like whenever you read ancient texts, they're always like much more focused on planets than anything else. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor:big time. Yeah and that's the that is the direction my interpretations have moved in it's planets and houses are the major things planets houses and like the closest applying aspects
Kyle Pierce:like that's like what are the deepest rheology is in where the meanings get? Complicated.
Tristan Paylor:Interesting. So they get grounded like in an actual lay. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Astrology down to earth like literally brings astrology down to earth because it's like where does Earth
Unknown:are we really have to wrap it up
Tristan Paylor:would we Joji would you like to share with us what what you're up to these days?
Joe G.:Yeah, um, my podcast with Gemini. Brett actually now is out. We release. Yeah. We just released the first episode yesterday on fleet versus freewill. It was a storytelling right?
Kyle Pierce:I feel like once Venus goes direct can be a bunch of like new stuff, like coming out.
Tristan Paylor:Everyone's just gonna, like crawl out of their basements and studio. stuff they did.
Unknown:Well, yeah. What about you interesting. What do you have going on?
Tristan Paylor:I I don't know. Let me try that again. So you can book an astrology reading with me. I do natal chart readings. I do business synastry and forecasting and all that fun stuff. at my
Joe G.:Your Instagram is beautiful. By the way, just like you
Kyle Pierce:do put together a good Instagram. I don't know why I'm the one running the astrology hotline Instagram.
Tristan Paylor:I can do it. I'm happy to take over. I'll come up with like I feel like I'm so bad. I didn't. I was like I liked doing it. Okay, well then I'll do it. Yeah, please. I'll do it. I have
Kyle Pierce:on? Me I have you can book a reading with me at Kyle Pierce astrology.com. You can also follow me for whatever it's worth on Instagram, at astrology for earthlings as well as Tumblr. The
Tristan Paylor:Astrology of earthlings is astrology. Number Number four links
Kyle Pierce:for you know, because you know, for actually, you know, it gives notes FLR not fo you are but they're the same word. So you can actually use numbers instead of words sometimes.
Joe G.:Thanks for the hurt to hear
Kyle Pierce:what I'm good for. Yes, but anywho Yeah, that's what I have going on. So thanks again so much for joining us again, Joe. Gee, I expect to have you back in the future. I'd be happy to
Tristan Paylor:Yeah, thank you so much God for your all your time and wisdom. This has been great. I feel like I've keep learning new and new new things. It never it never stops. I've learned a lot
Joe G.:that. Oh, thank you guys. I also learned so much and it's always just so fun to connect with other astrologers. shoe are fantastic like you guys are
Unknown:sitting way too warm for me
Joe G.:take a compliment Yes,
Kyle Pierce:cancer moment thank you all for listening and we'll see you next time.
Tristan Paylor:If you have a question you'd like to hear answered on astrology hotline, send us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com.
Kyle Pierce:potential scenario. Astrology hotline is at war at war on answered astrology questions. We have the weapons, we have the training, but to achieve ultimate victory, we need your help. I
